My dilemma with liking lock picking as a main skill is simple: It is the only skill specific mechanic of opening secrets or accessing things, and locked items were made by god himself to withstand any amount of force or level of intelligent use of mechanics.

I just find it a bit trite to hide a lot of the game's secrets behind one skill. It seems reasonable for two cases to occur:

There are more than one way to block a secret: locks, heavy/tough obstacles, and magical protection.
There is more than one way to open a locked container: picking it, unlock spells, brute/magical force, or intelligent application of mechanics.

Granted, incredibly tough locked items might need to be picked, but wooden containers and doors seem like they could be opened by anyone with enough determination.

The lock scene just seems to me like it could use a variety, whether it's a secret that isn't just behind a lock, or whether non stealthy characters can get past some of the basic to medium locked objects.

There are also unlock spells, so it's not only one skill. If you begin having magical barriers you begin locking out players that avoid using magic.

Well in the demo that Todd showed to the reporters, it was said that they had to inspect the dragon claw in order to solve the puzzle so they could continue on for more riches. Thats more got to do with your own puzzle solving skills rather than timing skills so I'm glad to hear about this.

There's Alteration spells, which are just as efficient.

There's a magical and a stealth method of opening locks, but no warrior method. I agree that they should add a lock bash method (probably based on weapon skill). Also I would like to see a trap system return, with probes for security, some kind of magical trap disarming spell, and possibly some kind of warrior trap disarm method (not quite sure how that would work. Maybe you could use your block skill or heavy armor skill to lessen the blow from the trap.)

I hope trapped containers from Morrowind make a return.

I also hope that there will be some containers you can possibly force open, kind of like in Knights of the Old Republic. Perhaps a perk could be tied into that. I don't know.

I always thought that lock bashing as a skill was kind of silly. Any idiot can bash something till it breaks.

Locked chests are fine, not being able to force one open is the problem for me.

I usually have a high score in security pretty early in a game since it's the only way to get loot from locked chests and rooms. I would love to spend less time dinking around with the lock pick mini game.

I loathe leaving an unopened chest or other container behind.


As for the one skill thing, well it only seems like it is this way. There are other methods of unlocking things so it's not a one trick pony. Sort of like saying it svcks to have to use my armorer skill to fix a shield because that's the only skill that you can use for repairing things.

Well if there were still attributes then it could be based on strength. But ES games are about being able to do anything. Why shouldn't someone who is a master with warhammers be able to smash open a little lock?

Just saying that someone with the exact same strength that has never held a warhammer would be able to bash the lock just about as easily. Agree on the strength point, maybe have it dependent on stamina.

Yeah stamina would be a good way to do it.

I would say skill-based lock bashing could always be successful at opening the lock, but lower skill makes it more likely to damage the contents. But I know people would hate that. I wouldn't mind as long as you can't break quest items and unique items, or if you could at least repair them.

I think there should be multiple options to open locks. I liked the minigame in Oblivion and it definitely would become more difficult by adding more tumblers on the harder locks and also make you pick locks in real time. Like, in Oblivion, there are three options you can do. Auto attempt for those that don't know how to do the minigame, the minigame itself and then alteration. Now in Skyrim, we can have say a lock bash for the more melee oriented, it breaks the lock but is noticeable and noisy. Then the lock pick minigame which as I said, should have more tumblers and be in real time and then there is of course, alteration. Everyone can have their option if they don't like the minigame or don't know how to do it or if they like it.

I actually think that's a great idea.

There should be "magically-held" locks that can only be opened through magic or perhaps the completion of a riddle/puzzle.

Just not the TES: Arena puzzles. :whistling:

I'd say at a minimum we need lock bashing. This I feel should apply both physical power and magic.

They should add lock bashing, with a chance of damaging the container's content. Bashing locks should also severely damage your weapon.
If using hand-to-hand to lock bash the chance of success should be lower than with a weapon, and should only be usable on simple locks. There should also be a chance to lose health when bashing with hand-to-hand.

Some containers and doors should have traps, like in Morrowind. There should be trap disarm spells, and there should be probes to help you disarm these traps.

There should be lockpicks and probes of different quality, like there was in Morrowind.

Minigames (if any) for lock picking and disarming should be in real-time.

Having a dedicated lockpicking skill creates a dilemma for the game's designers:
- There has to be enough lockpicking content to justify including the lockpicking skill.
- If there are other easily available means for players to bypass locks then it completely devalues the lockpicking skill.
- They don't want to force players to learn the skill so locks can never be a barrier to anything critical.

Hence, in Oblivion:
- There were lots of locked chests and containers.
- Most of the locked chest content was junk. Sometime valuable junk but rarely anything a player would miss too badly.
- The Skeleton Key was obtainable so that non-Security/Alteration users still had a chance to open locks but without completely devaluing the Security skill.

Since it doesn't look like there will be a specialist lockpicking skill in Skyrim I doubt we will so many locked containers.

A well made lock wouldn't fail until well after the container it's protecting would, You'd obliterate the contents you seek to gain in all likelihood.


But on the whole, I do agree that Security is practically an "Essential" Skill.


Actually, I just got an Idea how a Warrior could deal with it, Check the "Create a Perk" thread!

Lock bashing is certainly for idiots. I don't do it. I'm using a mod for Oblivion which comes with lock bashing but when I try it, the sound I make alerts EVERYONE!!!

Being swarmed by enemies while peacefully bashing chests is not fun. So I use lockpicking instead.

PS. I mean really, the alert radius for lock bashing must be enormous in the mod I'm using, it can very well be infinite. I don't think there are any caves or dungeons big enough to have NPCs fall outside of its alert radius. I actually use it to find out if I miss anyone while clearing caves.

I think your Key Smithing perk is a really nice idea. It gives each of the three basic skill groups a means of opening locks.

This could be easily fixed by lowering the alert radius... Anyway each method should have advantages and disadvantages.

Lockpicking pros: can open locks silently
Lockpicking cons: you have to have a high skill to get into the better locks, and you need lockpicks
Alteration pros: can open locks silently, without consumables
Alteration cons: you have to have a high skill and a powerful spell to get into the better locks
Bashing pros: can open any lock, without consumables
Bashing cons: it makes a loud noise, potentially damages the contents with a low skill, and damages your weapon

Beth is very OCD about balancing the "archetypes." If all three archetypes have a crafting skill, why is there one archetype that doesn't have any way of getting past locks?

keysmithing also sounds like a very good way to do it.