[RELz] AV Uncapper : IV

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:29 pm

Name: Actor Value Uncapper
Version: v1.beta1
Date: 2010-09
Category: Gameplay Effects and Changes
Author: JRoush
Download: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34841
Contact: jroush.tesmods@gmail.com

Requirements:
NOTE: using AVUncapper with the wrong verison of Oblivion will, *at best*, cause it to crash.
- Oblivion v1.2.0416
- TESCS v1.2.404 (only if you are planning to make mods using AAV)
- http://obse.silverlock.org/

NOTE: This is a *beta* version of this mod. Releasing mods that depend on this plugin is not recommended until a release version is uploaded.

Description:
This plugin for the Oblivion Script Extender `uncaps' all Actor Values. The meaning of `uncap' varies between AVs, but the general idea is to allow any floating point value. For some things, like Resistances or Armor Rating, it means replacing the game's formulas entirely. For skills & attributes, it usually means removing the hard limit of 100, and also altering the game formulas so that values over 100 are meaningful - yes, skills above 100 *will* be meaningful. Details for individual AVs are given in included `Features' pdf.

The behavior of this plugin is governed by a series of new game settings. The default value of these settings recreates the original vanilla behavior. To see the new behavior, you must use a .esp file (like the included example) to change these settings. If you do not use such a file then this plugin essentially does nothing.

Included are is a demo mod, AVUncapper_Example.esp, that uncaps all the actor values that are current supported.

To help with customization, freestylejc has created http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35675 which allows all of the settings to be configured through an ini file. If you are using AV Uncapper by itself, this mod is recommended to make configuration easier.

Details:

Spoiler

Installation & Uninstallation:
==============================
See the included Readme file for instructions.

Questions & Bug Reports:
========================
If you encounter a problem, something that is confusing or doesn't seem to work as expected, *please* do the following:

1. Read the readme, and the AV-related pages on the TESCS & UESP wikis carefully. Often 'bugs' are actually documented limitations of the game.
2. Reproduce the problem. If it's a crash, restart the game try to make it crash again.
3. Narrow down the cause. Try to figure out the circumstances that lead to the problem. Specific bug reports are easy to fix, while bug reports like "the game crashed after I installed this mod" are just a waste of my time.
4. Send me an email at jroush.tesmods@gmail.com. Include (!0 the details, (2) the version of OBSE you are using, (3) a copy of your savegame, and (4) the log files "AVUncapper.log" and "AVUncapper_CS.log", which can be found in your "Oblivion\" folder.

Compatibility with other mods:
==============================
AVUncapper is incompatible with Elys' Uncapper, which it is intended to replace.

History:
========
=== v1.beta1 (after split from AddActorValues) 2010/09 ===
- Split from AddActorValues to be a seperate plugin
- Simplified DP calculation
- Renamed all new game settings to include the prefix 'avu'
- fMaxArmorRating is now applies after all all other armor calculations
- Implemented flexible caps for base skill experience levels (up to 255)
- Implemented flexible caps for base attribute increases in levelup menu (up to 255)
- Implemented flexible cap for Sneak skill in detection calcs
- Implemented flexible cap and diminishing returns forumla for magic skills in magicka calcs
- Implemented flexible cap for Alchemy skill in potion and wortcraft strength
- Implemented flexible cap for weapon skills & attributes in weapon damage calcs
- Implemented flexible cap for hand to hand skill & strength in unarmed damage calcs
- Implemented DP for damage reduction from block
- Implemented DP for Spell Absorbtion
- Implemented DP for Spell Reflection
- Implemented flexible cap for worn armor skill
- Implemented DP for Resist Normal Weapons
- Fixed Weakness to Normal Weapons (it did nothing in original game)
- Added a `multiplier' bonus to skills from luck, in addition to the existing additive bonus
=== AddActorValues v1.beta3 (while still bundled with that mod) 2010/08 ===
- Implemented DP for Armor/DefenseBonus
- Implemented DP for magic effect resistance (set by individual magic effects)
- Implemented DP for magic item resistance (Resist Magic & Resist Poison)
- Implemented DP for reflect damage, plus option to make it work for projectile attacks
- Implemented DP for chameleon
- Implemented DP for blindness

Credits
=======
- Bethesda Softworks, whose game has svcked up far, far too much of my free time
- The OBSE team for their incredible modding resource, without which this plugin would be a joke.

Status (January 9, 2011):
The creation of this thread does not mean that a new version has been released. A new version is in the works, but my other projects have to take priority for the time being. The current version of AV Uncapper remains v1.beta1.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:39 am

I really love the dimished returns mechanic, but I think there's one issue with it. Even with a diminished returns curve, you'd still want to be able to set the resistances or weaknesses of actors to a specific (unmodified by DR) value. For example, the Fire Atronach has an ability that gives 100 pts fire resistance, but using the current DV formula that probably wouldn't give immunity (100% fire resist) as it should (regardless of the DR curve). Abilities only modify the base AV value though. So I propose to modify the DV formula so that the flat (unmodified by DR) base AV value is added to the DR-modified AV value. The base AV value must still be counted for the purposes of computing the DR itself though.

I appreciate the thought you put into this, and the approach you suggest is pretty clever. Unfortunately, Abilities only affect the base stats for the player; on NPCs and other actors they affect the 'Max' modifier just like ordinary spells or worn equipment. And even with the player, there are also a lot of scripts and mods that use Abilities interchangeably with Spells or worn enchantments. Simply put, there are technical and practical issues with the distinction between the 'base' AV value and the various modifiers that get added to it.

Also, I'm not sure that the loss of total immunity is worth 'fixing', per se. The whole point of this mod after all is that 100% immunity should be unobtainable. I do think that Frost Atronachs should be more than 85% resistant to fire, though, and therein lies my major roadblock for future versions.

Is there any chance you could add an option to AVUncapper to put the weapon formulas on a proper curve? Separate control of the skill and attribute portions would be optimal. I'm actually interested in accelerating returns on this one, not diminished... want it to work like your magicka cost calculation, except curving up instead of down.

Continued via PM.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:34 am

Well, I agree total immunity for the player should unobtainable, but enemies like for example ghosts should always be 100% immune to normal weapons. Sometimes you want the player to have a flat base resistance too though, like racial abilities and birthsigns. I didn't know abilities on actors besides the player only affect the Max modifier though, there goes my idea.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:50 am

Unfortunately, Abilities only affect the base stats for the player; on NPCs and other actors they affect the 'Max' modifier just like ordinary spells or worn equipment.

...but that could be changed, couldn't it?

As a per-effect override, change any abilities that are supposed to grant genuine immunity (or any other flat, absolute amount) to affect the Script modifier. Add an option to AVUncapper which allows you to exclude Script values from all DR calculations.

It might break compatibility with a few very old mods, but most modders know that ModAV is poison. It's optional anyway, so slap a big warning label on it and I think you're good to go.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:59 am

jroush ... or Whitenight

I asked this question on Nexus a while back in the comments section of the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35675 by whitenight.

If I use another mod that affects blocking such that it improves it but not through scripts like this one does - then will this overwrite that mod even with vanilla settings?

Is there a setting for blocking that will not at all affect the game - not even prescribing vanilla settings?

Or another way to put it - what settings do I use for this to remove this mod at all affecting blocking?

set JCNAVUncapQuest.fBlockMax					to	0.75		; Vanilla: 0.75

A lot of ini based mods have it so that setting things to 0 removes the utilization of the setting so other mods can handle, but that is not explicitly stated with this settings mod.

Thank you in advance for help in understanding.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:55 pm

jroush ... or Whitenight

I asked this question on Nexus a while back in the comments section of the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35675 by whitenight.

Or another way to put it - what settings do I use for this to remove this mod at all affecting blocking?

set JCNAVUncapQuest.fBlockMax					to	0.75		; Vanilla: 0.75

A lot of ini based mods have it so that setting things to 0 removes the utilization of the setting so other mods can handle, but that is not explicitly stated with this settings mod.

Thank you in advance for help in understanding.

Looking at Whitenight's script, it appears that there is no easy way to prevent it from overriding the fBlockMax game setting. As I see it, you have several options if you want to use both AV Uncapper and your blocking mod:

Make a simple esp file that sets the desired new AVU settings and doesn't change the settings you want left alone.
This doesn't require any scripting - just open the CS, find and set the desired values under Gameplay->Settings, and then save and activate.
Modify your copy of Whitenight's mod - open it in the CS, open the script "JCNAVUncapScript" and comment out any line containing "fBlockMax", then save.
Ask Whitenight to alter the scripts himself to customize which settings his script actively changes.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:11 am

Thanks you for taking the time to look at that and respond.

I will probably go with option 2 when I have a chance due to the lack of response from Whitenight.

Sometimes always having to choose is not really a choice to refuse.

That is what I would call a great fault in the mod as most ini style mods usually have an option in them to not use a specific feature (turn them off). Should we assume this is true for other settings such as armor rating too?

thanks again

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:03 am

It seems I'm not getting any effect from the alchemy settings (all others seem to work fine) in the INI from Uncapper Settings by whitenight.

I have it set to use current alchemy rating for brewing.

set JCNAVUncapQuest.favuAlchemyEffectiveSkillBaseMult to 0 ; Vanilla: 1
set JCNAVUncapQuest.favuAlchemyEffectiveSkillCurrentMult to 1 ; Vanilla: 0

I used GetGS to verify that the settings in the INI were applied to to the new game settings, but there is no difference when I brew potions with fortified alchemy. The only other mod that changes alchemy in my LO is JRoush's Alchemy Advanced. I tried to look at the scrips in the CS, but I could not find the lines that called for Alchemy rating.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:22 pm

The only other mod that changes alchemy in my LO is JRoush's Alchemy Advanced.

Seems you've come to the right place :biggrin:

Alchemy Advanced ignores the game's internal formulas and uses scripts exclusively, which means that the alchemy settings in AVU will have no effect whatsoever.

EDIT: Alchemy Advanced always uses the base Alchemy skill and the current luck (not sure why I chose that).

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:44 pm

A stunning addition and one that I've waited a long time for.
I've played with Elys Uncapper almost since it's conception. This should equalize that and make the game even more of a challenge, especially for those who have high level charaters playing on raised difficulty levels with mods like FCOM.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:42 pm

Alchemy Advanced ignores the game's internal formulas and uses scripts exclusively, which means that the alchemy settings in AVU will have no effect whatsoever. Fortunately for you, Alchemy Advanced uses the "current" Alchemy value, so you get the desired end result anyway.

Thank you! With that info I was finally able to find what I was going on. It seemed that my base and current alchemy were always the same, but really I just misunderstood what was meant by "current" Alchemy, I though it was taking Fortify Alchemy effects into consideration, not just Luck. My char's Luck was right at the pos/neg threshold for my game settings, so it wasn't affecting the "current" Alchemy. Knowing that AA had it's own calculations for this narrowed my search for the line in your script that allowed me to use fortified AVs for potion strength.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:09 pm

Any news on the final version ? Thanks in advance

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:40 am

Any news on the final version ? Thanks in advance

This project is on a back burner for the time being, as I'm working on others. I'll definitely be coming back to it at some point in then not-too-distant future.

For the record, the mod is quite stable - I would have released it a long time ago except that I intended to add more features.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:08 am

Uhm...I have a question. I'm interested in this mod, but I already have an uncapper installed (Elys'), and a char with some skills/attributes past 100. Would I have any issues if I upgrade to this uncapper?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:27 pm

Uhm...I have a question. I'm interested in this mod, but I already have an uncapper installed (Elys'), and a char with some skills/attributes past 100. Would I have any issues if I upgrade to this uncapper?

No, you should not have any issues.