It's now official that attributes are out. One thing I have found myself wondering is how Bethesda is going to handle the distinctions between different races now. One option would be to simply allow them to keep their resistances, abilities, and skill bonuses but keep them the same in terms of other traits, but that doesn't quite seem right to me. Bethesda has mentioned before how they wanted to increase the distinctions between the different races in terms of physical appearance, and I believe that they should apply the same philosophy to gameplay. I don't believe that a Bosmer should be able to become tougher than an Orc without a significantly greater effort put into building his fortitude, nor should any of the human or elf races be as deadly with their fists as the Khajiit are with their claws.

I'm proposing a system wherein races are distinguished not just by their resistances and weaknesses, special abilities, and skill bonuses, but also by their natural inclinations toward certain skills in a manner that emulates the differences created in the early game through attributes but lasts throughout your character's lifetime. Although these can be somewhat restricting toward certain races’ abilities to succeed in certain play types, they are also more realistic and introduce a lot of diversity between the races and make your choice of race far more meaningful.

I had a paper to write last night, which meant a prime opportunity to actually sit down and write out how this could work.

I included all four of the previously mentioned categories of traits. The new traits are based in large part off of the attributes in Morrowind and Oblivion, with a few exceptions to make the races better match their characteristics in lore. For example, Redguards were stronger than Orcs in those games, despite being depicted more as finesse fighters in the lore, so I gave them traits based more on skill and speed. Some traits are also based on the athletics and acrobatics skill bonuses that some races had, since those skills are no longer around. A couple traits are also entirely original but ones that I think make sense, such as Khajiit dealing more hand-to-hand damage due to their claws. The hardest part was coming up with traits for Imperials, as they were always pretty much jack-of-all-trades race.

The resistances are lifted more or less right out of Oblivion, as are a couple of the special abilities, though I also changed a few to be more useful or make more sense (Bretons can turn into tanks with armor-like skin? Really?). I cut down the total number of skill bonuses for each race from 45 to 35, given the smaller number of skills, and I didn’t assign anyone any armor skills, as I have serious doubts that they will be in the new game.

Altmer
125% bonus magicka (bonus to starting amount and any amount you choose to increase it by at level up)
10% reduced health (reduction to starting amount and any amount you choose to increase it by at level up)
10% increased effectiveness with all spells (more damage, longer summons, etc.)
20% increased cast speed
50% resistance to paralysis and disease
25% weakness to all elements
25% weakness to magic
+10 alteration and destruction
+5 conjuration, enchant, and illusion

Argonian
Water breathing
50% bonus to swim speed - suggested by mumatil after I somehow overlooked it
5% bonus health
10% bonus stamina
10% hand-to-hand damage bonus (dull claws)
Disease and poison immunity
10% reduction to speech abilities (checks, persuasion bonuses, however speech works in this game)
+10 security
+5 alchemy and hand-to-hand
Male:
10% further bonus stamina (20% total bonus)
5% bonus to move speed
+5 marksman, sneak, and one-handed weapons
Female:
25% bonus magicka
+5 illusion, restoration, and alteration

Bosmer
20% bonus stamina
10% reduced health
50% resistance to disease
20% bonus to move speed
10% bonus to jump height - suggested by mumatil
20% increased firing rate with bows
10% bonus to attack speed
25% reduced footstep sound radius when sneaking
Beast tongue – command creature up to player level for 60 seconds
+15 marksman
+10 sneak
+5 alchemy and security

Breton
50% bonus magicka
5% increased effectiveness with all spells
5% further increased effectiveness with conjuration and restoration spells (10% total bonus)
10% increased cast speed
10% increased potion strength
50% resistance to magic
Aetherial Retention: 50% spell absorption for 30 seconds
+10 restoration and conjuration
+5 alchemy, alteration, and illusion
Male
10% reduced stamina
Female
10% reduced health

Dunmer
10% bonus magicka
5% increased effectiveness with destruction spells
5% increased attack speed
10% increased firing rate with bows
50% resistance to fire
Ancestor Guardian – summon level-scaled Ancestor Guardian for 60 seconds
+10 one-handed weapons and destruction
+5 conjuration, marksman, and two-handed weapons
Male
10% bonus stamina
10% reduction to speech abilities

Imperial
10% faster skill increases (said to be especially disciplined)
25% bonus to speech abilities
5% increased effectiveness with dragon shouts
Voice of the Emperor – charm and calm humanoid up to player level for 60 seconds
+10 speechcraft and mercantile
+5 one-handed weapons, block, and hand-to-hand

Khajiit
10% bonus to move speed
25% bonus to jump height
25% reduced fall damage - suggested by mumatil
25 +lvl% bonus hand-to-hand damage (sharp claws are supposed to be Khajiits’ primary weapons, this will allow them to scale up, though I’m not entirely sure this is a good scaling value)
10% reduced footstep sound radius when sneaking
Eye of Night – toggled night vision
+10 sneak and hand-to-hand
+5 one-handed weapons, security, and mercantile (haggling said to be important in
Elsweyr)

Nord
10% bonus health and stamina
10% melee damage bonus
75% resist frost (damage and speed loss)
10% increased effectiveness with dragon shouts
Woad – 25% bonus armor and 50% resistance to stagger effects for 60 seconds
+10 two-handed and one-handed weapons
+5 smithing, block, and restoration
Male
5% resistance to stagger effects
10% reduction to speech abilities

Orcs
10% bonus health and stamina
10% melee damage bonus
5% resistance to stagger effects
25% resistance to magic
20% reduction to speech abilities
Berserk – 20% bonus to melee damage and attack speed, 50% resistance to stagger effects, 50% reduced stamina usage, and unable to block for 30 seconds
+10 smithing, and two-handed weapons
+5 hand-to-hand, one-handed weapons, and block
Male
5% further resistance to stagger effects (10% total resistance)
10% further bonus health (20% total bonus)
10% reduced magicka
10% increased footstep sound radius when sneaking

Redguard
20% bonus stamina
5% melee damage bonus
10% bonus to attack speed
10% bonus to move speed
50% resistance to disease and poison
Adrenaline rush – 20% bonus to attack and move speed, 10% bonus to melee damage, 25% resistance to stagger effects, and 50% reduced stamina usage for 60 seconds followed by double stamina usage and 10% reduced attack speed, move speed, and melee damage for 15 seconds (can be used for fight or flight, just like a real adrenaline rush; also leaves you drained just like a real adrenaline rush)
+15 one-handed weapons
+10 two-handed weapons and block



So what do you all think? Is this a good system, or do you consider it too restricting? I realize that I did have to make a tradeoff here, but I personally think these changes would make the game more interesting and make the choice of race a more significant factor in your character's abilities.

I like how inspired your suggestions are, but it's all a bit much.


It does have me wondering how the races are going to be differentiated, aside from look. I think I read that some have specific traits (Perks?) and also skill bonuses, but no examples. The bonus "Traits" could be the skill increase, or something else. Who knows.

It makes sense and I would have guessed that something similat was included. I think there is a slight unbalance in the force, but other than that: very logical. IMO at least.

I know that it's a bit restricting, and I didn't make too much of an effort to balance beyond just making sure one race isn't ridiculously powerful. I probably wouldn't want this exact list being put as-is in the game, but rather something very similar.

I'm actually hoping the races are more similar this time around. Let race be largely an aesthetic choice, and let skills and perks define the character as an individual.

a bit much but many words where necessary to explain this properly.also glad to see im not the only one who thinks we shall still be able to jump despite the fact jumping isnt under a skill name

I disagree - there'd be less impetus to try a different race for a different character build, and given that I never look at my character when I'm playing, I might as well be anything.

Yeah, it's definitely a real tradeoff between retaining your freedom to create exactly the character you want and giving weight to your decision on what race to play as. I would personally like your choice in race to have a more significant impact on your character development, but I can see why someone would want to keep their choices open.

You forgot initial speed and jump stats.

Argonian : speed increase to swimming

Khajiit: reduced fall damage, high jump.

Bosmer: Good jump, even less animals will be aggressive to Bosmer

Redgaurd: 20% reduction to stanima drain, also the fastest initial speed of all races.

I like the idea to have a different system to make the races more distinct. Just don't know if your idea is the best.

So long as options aren't ruled out I don't mind having the races quite focused.
Its a SP game so even if my orc mage isn't the most powerful mage possible so long as they're playable I don't mind.
Theres a certain satisfaction in playing against the stereotype.

I'm inclined to agree...

To clarify: I'm thrilled that attributes are gone. They're limiting and pointless. Perks allow for more real customization that doesn't rely simply on numerical differences.

Prior to Skyrim, what were the differences between races? Legitimately just numbers. That's boring. That's nothing.

Now, with perks...I think the possibility of racially-oriented perks being a part of what differentiates races is a distinct one! Perhaps in addition to what you suggested, OP, or perhaps in place of. I'd expect the former.

Either way, I'm looking forward to finding out precisely how races will be differentiated in Skyrim...Hopefully we'll hear more at E3, rather than just hearing about Mammoths and new Dragon Shouts (not that that's not awesome)

That's kind of what I was thinking. I can see why people wouldn't want to have their character limited like that, but I can also see the fun in building a powerful mage out of an Orc or a deadly berserker out of a Bosmer. Of course, I would also love to just feel everything sort of "click" when I play my race to its strengths.



I actually included about half off those in my original post, but the Agonian speed increase in water and the Khajiit fall damage reduction are good traits that I didn't even think of, especially the Argonian one.

The OP is onto something although I think 60 seconds might be a little too much time although if it's once a day powers then that would be fine. 50% Spell Absorbtion for the Breton might be a little too much but so far these are pretty good ideas.

Yeah, everything thing I put with a duration on it is a once-a-day greater power. I also wasn't too sure about the spell absorption, but I decided to just take the magical defense theme and run with it. I still like the idea of a spell absorption ability, as it fits in not only with their focus on the more arcane and subtle forms of magic as well as the magical defense theme I mentioned earlier, but it could probably benefit from being cut down to 30 seconds like the Orcs' berserk.