Sorry, I don't understand :blush2:

Just read the OP's post and skimmed through a couple of others.

First off no offense to the OP but this is a terrible idea. Just a reiteration of my previous posts on the topic

Reason 1: It's not innovative. I'm not a freakazoid freaking out over attribute removal but if your going to streamline a system and "hide" the same exact system in a bland talent tree system that is found in every([censored]) other mmorpg and rpg then I will definately pass. It's frustrating that this is probably going to be the case since there are 180 perks with a lot of them ranking up. Again it's just a Pinto with a fresh coat of paint.

Reason 2 : It makes no-one unique. If the majority of these perks are hidden stat modifiers in what way does that make you different than any other NPC in the game. Give me unique perks. I've posted my ideas on those before as a gaf. Search it. The change to perks could be a positive if the developers actually use some imagination and have fun making the game, in return we will enjoy it more. If that means narrowing down the perks to 40-60 then Hell Yeah! Go for it!!

I don't say this out of malice. I say it because I would hate to see Bethesda go the same route as Bioware and all the other wannabe's. Just because you slap an RPG label on a game doesn't make it so. Bethesda and maybe 1 or 2 others are trying to keep the western RPG alive so far by innovation and by adding depth and uniqueness to games. All the others are a detriment to games and the industry RPG makers. Just look at JRPG's. the same stagnant system for 25 years. It is broke and noone has bothered to fix it in the far east.

I agree with you that both MW and especially OB had some problems with the way in which skills were linked to attributes. Infact the fewer skills you have the harder it is to support attributes properly which is why the systematic streamlining of skills has eroded the entire character development system. Given that Bethesda were reluctant to start reintroducing skills the solution would have been to link some skills to more than one attribute, eg Block raises 50% Endurance, 50% Agility so that tanks have some way of raising agility to avoid being staggered back so much.

Well for me thats thread not about implementation of attributes via perks by Devs, instead its more like an interesting idea for implementation of attributes via mod, I'm sure we can edit and add more perks into game, they work like traits and powers in previous games.

Well 280 perks will not include all possibilities what can be added, only thats what devs done, attributes before work as base for many modding ideas, and if devs don't use them properly in previous game thats doesn't mean modders cant use attributes in better way, about generic rpg, well with perks we can return Birthsigns to the game, since devs remove them because some casuals can chose wrong combination at chargen, return advantages and disadvantages what was removed after Daggerfall, return classes as predefined sets of perks for character specialization, I think in such way we can add more RPG elements to game, does you not agree with me?


You cannot be sure thats most of attribute variables will be affected by perks, since number of perks is limited while number of variables can be large, thats make smaller number of specially unique perks, since need to have large numbers of leveled trees for perks.


Well you are not right, I'm not a fan of JRPG but I don't agree with you, for first 25 years old mechanic of JRPG based of earlier Wizardry and Might&Magic, for second it has also many changes in mechanic during this 25 years most of such changes in gameplay and combat.

The whole Major vs Minor, grinding +5's compounded with the level scaling of enemies was the worst part of Oblivion in my opinion. I do not think removingattributes is really that big of a deal because really it was basically 'get Endurance early and let everything else fall into place'

I am a little more skeptical about lack of Major Skill and Birthsign Selection. If the bonuses from Race are much more significant however I will be on board with this as well. In a true roleplaying sense... 'what Race are you?' should be more significant than 'what class are you?'

The perks of FO3 are EXCELLENT! I can't wait to see what they make for SKYRIM!

Well you are not right, I'm not a fan of JRPG but I don't agree with you, for first 25 years old mechanic of JRPG based of earlier Wizardry and Might&Magic, for second it has also many changes in mechanic during this 25 years most of such changes in gameplay and combat.
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Yes it might have it's basis in M&M but you can only rehash ATB systems so many times. They've streamlined those clunky old battle point turn based systems as much as possible... but they are still battle point systems. Further that with the fact that most have left open world explorability for linear path's all in the sake of flashy graphics (and zonky weird cultural differences) has just made it indescribably boring and linear. Last good JRPG I played was DQ8 and that was on a whim. It had a unique character to it and some depth but nothing compared to what western developers try to accomplish.

As for the Modding capability yes we are fortunate. I will buy it on the PC for GOTY as it gives time for excellent Mods to be established, Besides that I am also a console player as well. Either or we should expect ingenuity from Bethesda as they are far more than capable of excelling should they try for an innovative and more unique perks. Stat modifiers are a sham unless they have tangible on screen value at the very least. For that matter Console and PC players both should expect nothing but a quality product out of the core gameplay mechanic straight out the door. I state that just for the simple fact that it's my 60 bones and I expect it or at least expect a decent atttempt. I would much rather see an attempt at unique perks failed than the mindless and boring hidden stat modifiers that all of the other game makers are shelling out today,

I know right who cares if they removed crossbows and spears they probably had to spend the extra time on radiant AI.....

Pessimism is my armor.