Guard and Enemy AI Trouble : IV

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:46 am

Hello all,

I recently installed FCOM, Open Cities, and some other great mods. I experience a crash here and there but it's nothing serious. The problem I'm having is with guards, enemies and minor things like rats spawning in the water and dying and the occasional fish spawning on land.

Anyways. The Guards AI seems very stupid. Each of the guards get "stuck" walking back and forth for a long time and eventually they'll leave that area. It's like they're confused. I'm going left, no right, no left, no right.

And the problem with enemies, (well anything attacking me), is they don't register hitting me right away. They'll see me, chase me, catch me but not attack for a good minute. Another problem is when they finally do attack me, if the enemy attacking me sees a rat or a deer run by, they forget about me and just start after the rat or deer. (I'm only level 1 right now, could this be why? The rat and deer didn't attack them though, they just ran by).

If there's any help I could get to fix this I'd really appreciate it!

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.3]02  Open Cities Resources.esm  [Version 4.0.1]03  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]04  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]05  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]06  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]07  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]08  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]09  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]0A  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]**  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]**  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]0B  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]0C  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp0D  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0E  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]0F  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp10  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp**  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]11  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  LoadingScreens.esp12  LoadingScreensAddOn.esp**  LoadingScreensSI.esp13  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.3]14  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.3]++  All Natural - MMM Patch.esp  [Version 1.3]15  MIS.esp16  MIS New Sounds Optional Part.esp17  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.3]18  WindowLightingSystem.esp19  Days&Months.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]1A  FormID Finder4.esp1B  DLCHorseArmor.esp**  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1C  DLCOrrery.esp1D  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]1E  DLCVileLair.esp1F  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]**  Lair_mobs.esp20  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp21  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]**  Mehrunes_mobs.esp22  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]23  SellHorses.esp24  DLCThievesDen.esp25  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]26  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]**  Thievesden_mobs.esp++  MMM_Runeskull_Rebalance_BETA2.esp  [Version Beta]27  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]28  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]++  Cobl Tweaks.esp  [Version 1.73]29  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]2A  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]2B  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]**  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 2.0]++  ArmamentariumLLVendors.esp  [Version 1.35]2C  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2D  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2E  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]2F  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]30  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_LessRats.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_LessReaversInGates.esp  [Version 0.9.9]31  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Reavers.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]32  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]33  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]34  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]35  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]36  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]37  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]38  Artifacts.esp  [Version 1.1]++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.0]39  ImpeREAL City Unique Districts - All the Districts - Merged.esp3A  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Castles - All The Castles - Merged.esp3B  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp3C  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]**  Battlehorn_mobs.esp3D  DLCFrostcrag.esp3E  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]3F  Knights.esp40  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]41  OCC-KOTN-Patch.esp  [Version 3.0]**  DLC_MOBS.esp42  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]43  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.5]44  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.2]45  xulTheHeath.esp46  MMMMWL-TheHeath patch.esp47  XulEntiusGorge.esp48  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]49  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.1]4A  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]4B  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.4]4C  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.3]4D  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3.1]4E  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.3]4F  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]50  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.3]51  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.3]52  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]53  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.3]54  MMMMWL-RollingHills patch.esp55  xulPantherRiver.esp56  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.2]57  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.1]58  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.7]59  xulBlackwoodForest.esp  [Version 1.1.0]5A  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]5B  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0.2]5C  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp  [Version 1.0.1]5D  xulSnowdale.esp  [Version 1.0.2]5E  OOO-Snowdale Patch.esp5F  xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp  [Version 1.12]60  OOOCliffsofAnvilPatch.esp  [Version 1.1]61  MMMDungeons-CliffsOfAnvil patch.esp  [Version 1.0]62  xulSilverfishRiverValley.esp  [Version 1.0]63  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]64  Open Cities New Sheoth.esp  [Version 2.0]65  Open Cities Classic.esp  [Version 4.0.1]66  OCC-OOO-Patch.esp  [Version 3.0]67  OCC-ULCH-Patch.esp  [Version 2.2]68  OCC+Cheydinhal Falls Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]69  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]6A  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]6B  Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.76]6C  _Ren_BeautyPack_full.esp6D  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]++  Cobl Races - Balanced.esp  [Version 1.52]6E  MM_NoMoreAnnoyingMessages-Lite.esp**  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]6F  Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp  [Version 01]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.3]70  Bashed Patch, 0.esp71  OC+ULSkingradOutskirts Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:01 am

In the Tweak Settings section of the Bashed Patch, you want to set the AI: Max Active Actors to [MMM Default: 40}. You are running a script heavy Load Order, and this problem might be solved by trimming some mods.
Your FCOM setup has some extra esp's that it should not have, MMM Gems & Gem Dust esp's should not be used with an FCOM build, and you might think about updating to Cobl 1.73 and using MMM-Cobl 1.73 - Use the second link in my signature to get the links to these updates.
OC+ULSkingradOutskirts Patch should go after xulSkingradOutskirts in your Load Order, if BOSS does not recognise it, then check the UL release thread for a link to the current patch, or look on TESNexus.
I use OCR, and I know that it does need a patch for the MMM-City Defences, but the patch has not been created yet, I think the same issue applies to OCC, but I am guessing, the readme or the release thread for OCC probably has the answer.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:50 am

In the Tweak Settings section of the Bashed Patch, you want to set the AI: Max Active Actors to [MMM Default: 40}. You are running a script heavy Load Order, and this problem might be solved by trimming some mods.
Your FCOM setup has some extra esp's that it should not have, MMM Gems & Gem Dust esp's should not be used with an FCOM build, and you might think about updating to Cobl 1.73 and using MMM-Cobl 1.73 - Use the second link in my signature to get the links to these updates.
OC+ULSkingradOutskirts Patch should go after xulSkingradOutskirts in your Load Order, if BOSS does not recognise it, then check the UL release thread for a link to the current patch, or look on TESNexus.
I use OCR, and I know that it does need a patch for the MMM-City Defences, but the patch has not been created yet, I think the same issue applies to OCC, but I am guessing, the readme or the release thread for OCC probably has the answer.

Thank you very much for your reply! I applied the tweak now and am removing the MMM Gems & Gems Dust esp's.

I'm trying to find the download for Cobl 1.73 but I just can't find it. I can only find 1.72. :sweat:

I'm looking for a patch for OCC Skingrad and UL but I'm only finding the one I downloaded---the one not recognized by BOSS. I'm going to keep looking. I'm also looking for any sign of OCC being incompatible with MMM-City Defenses. So far, nothing. I'm going over the readme now.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:46 am

Few more notes, probably unrelated to your issues..

You should get the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27710
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp - Not required with Supplementals installed
Item interchange - Consider updating to v0.78.
Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife - Apparently there're issues with FCOM at the moment, disable
_Ren_BeautyPack_full.esp - Just curious, COBL Races already has it as Hidden Elves, so you might want to disable this
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21104 - In the Files section look under Miscellaneous, download "Loot-Drop-Merchant changes Proposal"

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:23 pm

Thank you very much for your reply! I applied the tweak now and am removing the MMM Gems & Gems Dust esp's.

I'm trying to find the download for Cobl 1.73 but I just can't find it. I can only find 1.72. :sweat:

I'm looking for a patch for OCC Skingrad and UL but I'm only finding the one I downloaded---the one not recognized by BOSS. I'm going to keep looking. I'm also looking for any sign of OCC being incompatible with MMM-City Defenses. So far, nothing. I'm going over the readme now.

The 1.73 version is in the Drop Loot Merchant Changes Proposal in the Cobl optional downloads on TESNexus, it is a new esm and a few new esp's for Cobl 1.72. The UL patch can be placed manually after the UL esp it patches.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:14 am

Few more notes, probably unrelated to your issues..

You should get the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27710
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp - Not required with Supplementals installed
Item interchange - Consider updating to v0.78.
Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife - Apparently there're issues with FCOM at the moment, disable
_Ren_BeautyPack_full.esp - Just curious, COBL Races already has it as Hidden Elves, so you might want to disable this
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21104 - In the Files section look under Miscellaneous, download "Loot-Drop-Merchant changes Proposal"

Okay, thank you. I'm applying your suggestions now. Even though it may not help my current problems like you said I welcome any updates!

The 1.73 version is in the Drop Loot Merchant Changes Proposal in the Cobl optional downloads on TESNexus, it is a new esm and a few new esp's for Cobl 1.72. The UL patch can be placed manually after the UL esp it patches.

One question, should I remove the Cobl-Tweaks.esp since it is already added with FCOM?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:14 am

One question, should I remove the Cobl-Tweaks.esp since it is already added with FCOM?

Oh missed that, but yes remove it. Another note since you're installing COBL 1.73, FCOM_Cobl.esp needs to be removed too. Just keep both MMM (from 1.73) and OOO cobl files.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:36 am

Not connected to your current issue but:

FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 0.9.9MB3] - Update to 109.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:53 am

Oh missed that, but yes remove it. Another note since you're installing COBL 1.73, FCOM_Cobl.esp needs to be removed too. Just keep both MMM (from 1.73) and OOO cobl files.

Thank you.

Here's what I did:

Cobl:
Installed 172
Installed the Loot-Drop-Merchant_changes_Proposal which is Cobl 173
Removed Tweaks from the 173 update and remove FCOM_Cobl from FCOM.

Interchange 0.78 installed
Unofficial Oblivion Patch Supplementals
OC+UL Patch Re-ordered
MMM-More Passive Life unchecked
Tweak for MMM added

Ren's Beauty Pack (If I uninstall this my character's body disappears and entering "showracemenu" via the console makes Oblivion crash. Is there any harm in just keeping this mod installed?)

Not connected to your current issue but:

FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 0.9.9MB3] - Update to 109.

Edit: Nevermind, I found the update. Thank you.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:01 am

Yes, will be fine to keep Ren's. Would be nice to uninstall it and save a slot for another mod, but guess you're fine at the moment as you're nowhere near the 255 mod limit.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:51 am

Yes, will be fine to keep Ren's. Would be nice to uninstall it and save a slot for another mod, but guess you're fine at the moment as you're nowhere near the 255 mod limit.

Ah okay. Maybe what I could do it change my race and then uninstall Rens. I'll look into that.

I've got one more question. It seems like the AI is a bit better, not 100% sure yet, gotta play more. But my question is, why are the deer and wolves slow? Like my character can run backwards and get away from an attacking Guard Dog or my character can catch up to the deer and she's only level 1! Do you know why this is?

Edit: I just thought about them being slow from fatigue?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:59 am

Slow? o.o Can't say I've experienced that, maybe someone else will know for certain. Being able to get out of range from an attacking creature, there's actually a mod that rectifies that. Not certain if that'd help you, check out http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=31882. The video will show an example, hilarious too.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:38 am

Slow? o.o Can't say I've experienced that, maybe someone else will know for certain. Being able to get out of range from an attacking creature, there's actually a mod that rectifies that. Not certain if that'd help you, check out http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=31882. The video will show an example, hilarious too.

Hmm, they're not slow now. I'm guessing the Guard Dog was running after me for a long time and his fatigue was low and thus made him slow? I'm not sure. And I'm not sure about why the deer are slow. But I don't really mind it. That's so minor. The guards aren't fixed. They're still "confused". I'm thinking what bradleyh said is true about MMM-City Defenses having an incompatibility with Open Cities Classics 4.0.1. I haven't been able to find proof however.

I played since I last posted and just experienced a crash. I don't know if that's normal or not.

Okay, thank you. I'll look into that mod.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:21 pm

Hmm, they're not slow now. I'm guessing the Guard Dog was running after me for a long time and his fatigue was low and thus made him slow? I'm not sure. And I'm not sure about why the deer are slow. But I don't really mind it. That's so minor. The guards aren't fixed. They're still "confused". I'm thinking what bradleyh said is true about MMM-City Defenses having an incompatibility with Open Cities Classics 4.0.1. I haven't been able to find proof however.

I played since I last posted and just experienced a crash. I don't know if that's normal or not.

Okay, thank you. I'll look into that mod.

I'm using neither but doesn't Open Cities come with its own optional city defenses?

Anyway, if the deer/guard dog are hurt it might very well be MMM's wounding system that slows them down as their speed will be lowered depending on how wounded they are.

Also, after making the above changes you should wait 4 days in a secluded cell (such as the player home) for a respawn to ensure that the changes take effect,

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:23 am

I'm using neither but doesn't Open Cities come with its own optional city defenses?

Anyway, if the deer/guard dog are hurt it might very well be MMM's wounding system that slows them down as their speed will be lowered depending on how wounded they are.

Also, after making the above changes you should wait 4 days in a secluded cell (such as the player home) for a respawn to ensure that the changes take effect,

I believe Open Cities comes with it's own city defenses but I can't find the option. So I'm not 100% sure. I'm still looking. I still could use help with this from someone.

And I believe you're right about MMM's wounding system. That makes perfect sense because there was a giant running around that area where I saw the deer and when I returned to the area the deer were dead. So when he saw me, I ran, he chased the deer instead, I saw they were slow (probably because he was attacking them), I then came back and they're dead because he killed them.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:57 pm

I believe Open Cities comes with it's own city defenses but I can't find the option. So I'm not 100% sure. I'm still looking. I still could use help with this from someone.

Don't know about OC's options but you shouldn't use MMM's City Defenses with OC. Corepc is the main caretaker of MMM so he knows about this stuff:

You should not be using MMM City Defences with Open Cities

EDIT: Judging by OCC's readme it's a planned addition that's not implemented yet: "the soon to exist OC City Defenders module".

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:36 am

Don't know about OC's options but you shouldn't use MMM's City Defenses with OC. Corepc is the main caretaker of MMM so he knows about this stuff:

EDIT: Judging by OCC's readme it's a planned addition that's not implemented yet: "the soon to exist OC City Defenders module".

Oh! Okay, thank you! I'll remove the MMM-City Defenses option now. That should definitely fix the problems with the guards.