Stealth Magic and Mayhem : V

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:39 am

We have all discussed how we want the crime system to be changed. We want to be able to kill someone without the crime instantly being reported, yes we have all covered our desire for guards to throw away their bluetooth cellhphones. But I would like to expand on this. I think stealth + magic + glyph spell traps would be hilariously awesome. If you manage to place a magical glyph trap while in stealth on the ground and wait for an NPC to just wander on top of it, maybe sending the NPC sky high or igniting the NPC like a flaming torch but not getting caught since you PLACED it while in stealth. Oh I would have fun for hours. Anyone like this idea?

» Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:46 pm

Realistically, and I'm not saying this will happen, but the guards might try to figure out who did it, and if you are a well-known magic user, you may be a prime suspect. The idea is cool though.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:37 am

Yes I like this a lot! I can just imagine NPC's reactions if this happened in a city/town.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:32 am

Stealth for magic users needs to be improved on certainly, it has to be more than a case of just casting invisible just after attacking an opponent. "glyphs" (or runes as I believe they're called) are in the game and I hope they can be used to great effect with magic characters. Memorise the guard's patrol pattern... and place a few ice runes at his most vulnerable point. :goodjob:

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:44 am

or a nice paralyze glyph/rune right on the edge of a cliff and tell your adoring fan to "Stand right here? Are you sure?"

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:19 am

I'm going to place a rune outside a npc's house,and hide and watch....

Whilst playing some Mayhem loud.

Black Metal Ist Krieq.lol

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:48 am

As long as AI is smart enough to know what you are doing if they see you "planting" the trap. Also, I would assume some magic based characters would be able to detect a magic trap.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:59 am

I do hope this game has stealth criticals with spell attacks for once.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:40 am

As long as AI is smart enough to know what you are doing if they see you "planting" the trap. Also, I would assume some magic based characters would be able to detect a magic trap.

which is a possibility and i honestly would welcome the chance for magic caster NPCs to have the ability to detect there is a magic trap and attempt to disarm it. it would be even more hilarious though if there was a chance for failure. I would also like to add that just because you cast the spell should not mean they would know it was you who placed it.. it's not harry potter and they don't track spells via wand useage.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:20 am

We have all discussed how we want the crime system to be changed. We want to be able to kill someone without the crime instantly being reported, yes we have all covered our desire for guards to throw away their bluetooth cellhphones. But I would like to expand on this. I think stealth + magic + glyph spell traps would be hilariously awesome. If you manage to place a magical glyph trap while in stealth on the ground and wait for an NPC to just wander on top of it, maybe sending the NPC sky high or igniting the NPC like a flaming torch but not getting caught since you PLACED it while in stealth. Oh I would have fun for hours. Anyone like this idea?

I like the concept of a stealth trapper, however there's the small problem going out of stealth when casting any spell. Doesn't preclude scouting the enemy out, leaving their effective line of sight and awareness range, placing glyph traps, then luring npc schmuck to their doom, heheheh

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:48 pm

In such a magic rich world I would expect that the guards local battle mages would have some means to track down criminal casters.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:14 am

In such a magic rich world I would expect that the guards local battle mages would have some means to track down criminal casters.

:( You're no fun

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:24 am

Yes! I assume it will work this way. If a victim doesn't see who placed the magic trap, then how can they blame you? If they did see you place it, then they ought not to step on it.

I don't know how it will work, but I hope we can lay these magic traps just like mines.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:49 pm

Hm, perhaps stealth could mitigate magic resistance. Telekinesis for example, could be resisted and the character could break free. But if taken by surprise, it takes much longer for them to resist, giving the player enough time to throw the person or whatnot.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:57 am

Well I'd like to see some skills and attribute checks and some Radian AI improvements like it was fixed in Oblivion
Mind-Control Crime
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24099

Used on anyone with legal rights, Charm, Command Humanoid, Demoralize, and Frenzy effects are now illegal. Victims can't tell if you're casting it on them (unless they have an Intelligence of 75+ or an Illusion skill of 50+), but other people nearby can. Witnesses will only be able to tell what you're doing if they have an Intelligence of 50 or higher, an Illusion skill of 25 or higher, or training as a Guard. Like with other crimes, how they react to it depends on the witness in question. Often, though, they'll call the Guards. If you mind control a Guard, and a witnessing civilian raises the alarm, the guard will believe them and try to arrest you (Assuming they're not in your thrall or completely insane). If you're seen mind-controlling a victim, any crimes they commit while under a Frenzy or Command Humanoid effect will be counted towards your bounty as well. Theoretically, they wouldn't be responsible for their actions at this time, but I've never seen such a crime end in any other way than the Frenzied victim being killed. If the victim dies while under a Frenzy or Command Humanoid effect, you will be treated as the murderer.

Stealthy Absorbs and Drains v1
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28292

This mod makes Absorb and Drain Attribute and Skill spells non-hostile if your skill in the corresponding
school AND your sneak skill are both higher than the casting cost of the spell. This makes it possible to do
things like absorb a merchant's mercantile skill to get better deals when buying equipment or a passing NPC's
luck to get better odds at the arena without alerting anyone and causing them to go on the offensive.
This is a small mod intended to add a little bit of variety and usefulness to some otherwise pretty useless
spells, and to make quests in the city a little more interesting for stealth-type characters who use magic.

Put it in its Place - Enhanced Grabbing
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19847
Better detection and reaction of NPC on havok movement with dragging and telekineses, really great improvement over Oblivion system.

Duke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrows Alert The Target
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16150
Make NPC aware about shooting arrows and casting spells around them, so no more casting fireball or shooting over head of NPC without of any reaction from their AI

About invisible runes, I'd like return of Detect Enchanting spell so NPC thats have such spell can see such runes on ground as well as player can see them, if magnitude of spell and skills was high enough, another thing thats such spell can handle its highlighting plaques and inscription on the walls with magical aura (certain puzzles can be based on it), detect dropped enchanted items on ground (no more pixel hunting for small ring, or disarmed weapon in high grass, as well can be used for detecting missed throwing weapons and arrows)

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:37 am

I wonder what happens if you place a rune trap thingy and the character that walks over it has some kind of spell reflection enchantment active....

Thoughts?

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:18 am

I'd like an invisibility glyph. An NPC walks over it then heads up to a friend to chat whence hilarious hijinks occur.
'Hey John.'
'By the nine who said that?!'
'It's me! Dave! I'm right here man!'
'Is that you Mad God!? Are you here to drive me insane?!'
'For Azura's sake man I'm right here!'

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:07 am

I wonder what happens if you place a rune trap thingy and the character that walks over it has some kind of spell reflection enchantment active....

Thoughts?

The same thats was in previous games, spell will be applied since magical traps can be only resisted or absorbed

Unlike Spell Absorption, Reflect Spell only protects you against spells cast by spellcasters. Therefore, it won't protect against damage from objects such as Magic Traps. Fortunately, this means that, unlike Resist Magic, it won't prevent you from reaping the benefits of good spells, such as the Arena Basin and blessings at altars.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Reflect_Spell
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Reflect

I'd like an invisibility glyph. An NPC walks over it then heads up to a friend to chat whence hilarious hijinks occur.
'Hey John.'
'By the nine who said that?!'
'It's me! Dave! I'm right here man!'
'Is that you Mad God!? Are you here to drive me insane?!'
'For Azura's sake man I'm right here!'

If we can still apply spell effects and invisibility and chameleon not axed or hardcoded.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:15 am

Whilst this isn't really related to the whole magic/stealth thing, it is to do with the crime system, so I'll post anyway:
I got arrested, and I broke out of jail. I proceeded to kill a guard and take his armour. I then tried to just walk out of the jail... It didn't work, the guards just came running... |:

I would like to be able to do that... I guess it links with the whole psychic guard thing, it's a small detail, but one that would make the game just that little bit better IMO. It'd be great, and once the guards realized they could do a city-wide search for you, at which point you#'d have to go into hiding until heat died down or something.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:50 am

I do hope this game has stealth criticals with spell attacks for once.

This.

It might be a bit questionable if this would be a silent way of killing someone though... definitely not if its on a timed effect.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:01 pm

Any word on Conjuration? Conjured weapons in particular. I want to conjure a bow & arrows for my stealth character.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:35 am

Magic generates light, light exposes somebody from the shadows, and there is nothing less conspicuous than a giant ball of light flying at you from a shadowy part of the area. You just can't couple combat magic with stealth. If you want to use chameleon spells and heal out of combat (after everyone is dead), that you can do that, but throwing a spell designed to zap a guy to death is in no conceivable way stealthy.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:03 pm

Magic generates light, light exposes somebody from the shadows, and there is nothing less conspicuous than a giant ball of light flying at you from a shadowy part of the area. You just can't couple combat magic with stealth. If you want to use chameleon spells and heal out of combat (after everyone is dead), that you can do that, but throwing a spell designed to zap a guy to death is in no conceivable way stealthy.

But at the same time if you shoot at someone from stealth with a missile spell and nobody really notices it until it hits you should be able to get away with it. Considering they are working on the detection system and getting away from that instant detection you might be able to pop a shot off if well hidden. They might know what direction it came from but as soon as the spell gets far enough away from you you would be concealed in darkness again.

» Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:12 am

Magic generates light, light exposes somebody from the shadows, and there is nothing less conspicuous than a giant ball of light flying at you from a shadowy part of the area. You just can't couple combat magic with stealth. If you want to use chameleon spells and heal out of combat (after everyone is dead), that you can do that, but throwing a spell designed to zap a guy to death is in no conceivable way stealthy.

Well thats is cracks of lighting sparks and growling explode of fireball actually will generate a lot of noise and emit light around, but now we have rune traps for such spells and I think thats really elegant solution, interesting can we apply such type of cast to other spell effects or it hardcoded only to certain groups of spell effects?