I screwed up a ranger toon by making it +2 + 3 +1luc, now at lv 10,
so I'm making a new warrior toon with a good build.

How does everyone get +5/5/5 or +5/5/1?
I'm trying to get it right but each time I only get +2/3 str and +2/3 endurance.
What am I doing wrong?

Imperial born under the sign of the warrior

Major Skills
Blade
Heavy Armor
Block
Alchemy
Restoration
Acrobatics
Athletics

I'm using this http://ocp.uesp.net/ character planner.

Says to level strength and endurance to 100 1st, along with 1 luck per lvl.
Still can't seem to figure out how to get +5/5/1...

In order to get +5 in a stat, you need to increase the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Skills by +10 during one level. So, to get a +5 in STR, you need to increase Blade, Blunt and/or Hand to Hand by 10 from one level to the next. This requires some planning and grinding. If you are on the PC, you may want to skip that part and install a mod that gives you +5 on all stats if there is just one skill increase, such as http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2691.

yeah i understand how it works,
but its really annoying getting that much without the "progress to next lvl" bar being full..

tyvm for the mod, but im a new player with those.
i downloaded it, where do i put it in the oblivion folder now?

The trick to getting +5/5/5 is to carefully plan when and how often you level up.

Hate to tell you this, but your major skills are very poor choices for efficient leveling. Acrobatics & Athletics should *never* be chosen as major skills, because they level very quickly and are nearly impossible to control. Alchemy and armor skills are also poor choices, unless you never use them.

What I do is choose a few major skills which I never plan to use for my character, except when it's time to level up. For example, my current mage/thief has Blunt & Heavy Armor as majors, but he only uses a blade and wears no armor (except in The Arena). I also take note of my skills each time I gain a level, then once I'm 1-2 pts away from the next level I check to see which skills are closest to gaining +5 and train/grind accordingly. I also keep a list of the skill books and where they are located in the game, so I know when to pick them up or leave them behind.

Keep in mind that whenever you get the "rest and meditate" message, your skill gains are locked in place -- from then on, any skill gains apply to the *next* level.

ok thx for the advice jeremyvl ^^
i put the .esp file of the mod zumbs gave me into the oblivion/data folder,
it wont work.

can anyone help me please?

Build the character with major skills being the skills you do NOT use. That is how to do efficient leveling and maximize your potential.

Try this:

Blunt
Heavy Armor
Alteration
Mysticism
Light Armor
Security
Speechcraft

This build allows you to control your leveling. Do not wear armor except when you are training that skill. There's no need, anyway. Usually, rangers/foresters do not wear armor or only light armor, so this still fits roleplaying. Of course, if you get light armor to 100, you could wear it, anyway.

Don't use Blunt except to level or train the skill.

Same with Mysticism and Alteration. Those two magic schools are the least used, usually. You can use them to level during the first 10-15 levels because that allows you easy control.

Don' t use Security until you are ready to develop Agility (after maxing Endurance, and probably Speed, or at least improving Speed).

Don't worry about Strength, not for an archer type of character, not until later in the game, anyway. Worry about Marksman and get it to 25 ASAP, then get it to 50, then 75. After Marksman gets to 50, you will probably be developing Agility by that time, but you should have plenty of points between the three Agility skills as long as you do not waste Sneak points early on.

Use Armorer and Block to develop Endurance until Armorer and Block are 25. Then use Armorer until it gets to 50. You can also use Heavy Armor solely for training and leveling in order to max Endurance, but don't waste points between Armorer and Heavy Armor. You could split the 10 pts per level by taking 5 Heavy Armor, 5 Armorer. Up to you.

Mercantile is certainly not useless in the early stages of the game, at least if you want to maximize your character. It's basically uncontrollable like Acrobatics and Athletics because you really cannot avoid selling stuff until the mid stages of the game.

Do the mage's guild recommendations and get into the Arcane University so that you can make your own spells and enchanted stuff.

@andyalam
Open the Oblivion Loader and instead of starting the game, press the "Data Files" button. This will show you a list of data files with checkboxes next to them. Make sure that the esp you downloaded is checked. Then you start the game, and when you level up, you should get the +5 on the stats.

@AiTenshi1
It is my clear experience that the more time I use to level efficiently, the more time I use grinding instead of having fun. The always +5 mod free me from those considerations, and let me just enjoy the game.

Or... if you really want to just make things simple and avoid the game mechanics, just use game console commands to set your stats and skills to whatever you want.

That's even easier than using mods.

So very long ago, I used to worship the cosmic interface between skill selection/use and attribute gains, building efficient pixel robots with great care and planning. Not anymore. Here is what I do:

Pick the skills I want. Play the way I want. When I level up, take the gains I get for the attributes I want to increase. Then open the command console and tweak my three choices to +5 as required. No mods, no hassles, no problem.

Now, that said, I find it less and less important. My current character, for RP purposes has base strength and endurance - as a glass cannon, she always will. I've never added a point to luck on any character.

I could never bring myself to do efficient leveling, it's such an unnatural thing to do.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14065

This. Training skills you don't use, or taking unused skills as majors seems to be exactly the opposite of what Oblvions (and Morrowinds too) leveling system tries to accomplish, and exactly for that reason i use the nGCD (and original GCD for Morrowind) mod. Hopefully one will be available for TESV too

Actually, that's exactly the opposite of what TES is intended to do. Bethesda provided us with the game and how it works. Obviously, they also provided us with the tools to avoid using what they gave us. However, it is certainly untrue that building a character where little or unused skills are placed as majors is not what TES is supposed to do. On the contrary, that's exactly what it is supposed to do, and that's how the game mechanics work.

It seems to me that some people confuse leveling with usage. The two concepts are completely separate.

As I said, using a mod to get around the leveling system is rather moot when you can simply set your skills and stats to whatever you like (assuming that is your concern and you simply want to avoid playing the game as it was created). Why bother with a mod when you can simply set the numbers using the console? There's no point if that is your goal.

Just makes to sense to me to have the skills i use most as the majors, it seems absurd to do it any other way.

With nGCD your attributes increase when skills that are governed by them increase. To me it seems much more natural than the default system with it's multipliers. It alters the game mechanics, whereas using the console just bypasses them. As a bonus it makes leveling happen completely in the background, and not require sleeping or any input from the player.

To the OP: don't worry about efficient levelling, unless you're playing on the hardest level it doesn't matter if you're not getting three +5s per level (and even then I suspect it's debatable). Honestly, it's absoluteley not worth the hassle involved, and turns a wonderful explore-'em-up into a deathly tedious grindfest. Videogames shouldn't be a chore, and efficient levelling is.

I got the mod working and I've decided to use that.

Doing all the work just to get 5/5/5 or 5/5/1 is really annoying,
also takes away from all of the fun in the game when you're spending
all of your time getting everything perfect

On a related note, what is the benefit of going +5/5/1 vs +5/5/5?

I made a character that started with +5 to Luck and took the Thief Birthsign for another +10 to Luck. Since you can only add +1 to Luck per level, taking both of these Luck boosts puts you 15 levels ahead in terms of capping Luck at 100... right? This would be the equivalent of 75 attribute points in anything besides Luck correct? But... what does this actually do for your character?

I guess I don't understand the true value of a high Luck total.

The single value of luck: 40% of the difference between your current luck and 50 is applied as a bonus (or penalty, if your luck is less than 50) to all skills except athletics and acrobatics.

So if, for instance, your luck is 65, that's 15 extra luck, 40% of 15 is 6, so it's a +6 to all skills except athletics and acrobatics.

It's most important early in the game, and for two reasons-- first, the bonus is a larger percentage of a lower skill level-- the difference between 30 and 36, for instance, is much more significant than the difference between 90 and 96. Second, all skills except for athletics and acrobatics are effectively capped at 100, so when you get to 100 in a skill, the luck bonus no longer applies at all.

For those reasons, if I'm planning on taking advantage of luck in a build, I use The Thief and/or luck as a favored attribute, take the bonus from that, then just ignore it from then on. I find that, adding 1 point at a time, by the time I've gotten my luck up enough higher than that to make a notable difference, I generally don't need the advantage any more, so the points are better spent somewhere else.

Efficient leveling and/or grinding is in every RPG out there, including megapopular MMOs with millions of players. Developing the character by planning efficient use of skills and stats is the fun of the game. Everyone has their own standards, of course, but it certainly is not true that achieving 5/5/5 or 5/5/1 ruins the game's fun in any way, nor is it a lot of work once you understand the game mechanics.

However, as I said, PC users can easily set their stats and skills to max and go about playing the game if that is what they wish to do. Sort of defeats the entire purpose of roleplayng a character, but I suppose it's similar to people who buy someone else's MMO account with a max character and all sort of mega gear that they didn't actually take the time to develop and acquire. I would never do such things because that actually ruins the entire game experience and makes playing pointless, at least for me.

Yes, developing a character in an RPG is work. It always is regardless of whether the game is a pencil and paper RPG or some type of computer or console RPG. That's because it's supposed to be roleplaying a character, not an action game, and real life requires that we plan and develop ourselves carefully. Roleplaying is simulating real life in some way, so there you go.

gpstr offers a good explanation of Luck. However, I don't agree with the assertion that Luck development is pointless at mid and higher levels. I would say that it really depends on your character and play style. It may be pointless for some characters and/or players. However, I have found that it is helpful and enjoyable for my specific characters. On the other hand, I am a conservative type of player and completionist/perfectionist. It certainly isn't necessary. Then again, nothing in TES is necessary because there are always ways to get the same or equivalent benefits elsewhere.

Achieving three 5s is great, it's the work to get them that's a chore. IMHO, obviously. The only point I would make is that for some players (myself included), fretting over whether or not they're levelling efficiently can detract from the fun they're supposed to be having, and good character developement does not necessarily mean hitting three fives every level up. But then I'm the kind of scum who in Morrowind would just use trainers to powerlevel, so draw your own conclusions...

^This.

I put a fair amount of thought into the initial build, specifically so that I can get good skill increases while leveling up slowly, and that specifically so that I don't have to pay as little attention as possible to leveling or skills while I'm playing the game. I tend toward most-used skills as minors and a combination of slow-increasing and unused majors, and with the specialization that matches the most-used minor skills, because I find that that's the best way to ensure that the character always gets enough increases in important skills while still leveling slowly, and that because then I can just play the game, ignore all of that leveling business and the character is fine.

I can generally get +5's in the important attributes (endurance, strength for a fighter, intelligence for a mage, etc.) for at least the first few levels just by a careful selection of most-used skills as minors, and I find that that's generally plenty to keep the character competitive for the duration of the game. And that frees me up to just take the character out and and get to know him/her as s/he goes places and does things and meets people and kills monsters (or people), and that, to me, is the entire point of the game.

I just use OblivionXP and avoid the whole shebang

I just started Oblivion and was really confused by the leveling system. Being "punished" by using my chosen skills seems absurd to me. I had already downloaded nGCD, but didn't quite understand what it was doing and I wanted to experience the vanilla game for a while. I'm level 4 now and really hating the grind, so I'm going to kick that mod on and see how it changes my character. This thread was just what I was looking for.

So about this whole "efficient leveling" thing. Is it basically taking skills that you are not going to use (except to level a certain attribute needed) that benefits your actual usage. Example: Having blunt as a major skill for the strength attribute when you actually use blade for the most part.

This is part of it, but it's trickier than that. I'm a newbie who has been struggling through understanding this efficient leveling thing. I'll try to break it down...

Let's say you decide that the three attributes you want to concentrate on initially are Strength, Endurance and Agility. You want to make sure you get 10 skill upgrades in each of these categories WITHOUT going over 10 skill upgrades and WITHOUT adding skills upgrades to any other skills outside of those three categories. You also have to get 10 total skill upgrades in any or all of your Major Skills. This triggers the leveling. Any skill upgrades you get over the 10 in each category will be wasted in terms of getting your +5/+5/+5 attribute bonuses on your next level.

IDEAL LEVEL UP

Strength
- Blade
- Blunt (major) - 10 increases
- H2H

Endurance
- Armorer - 3 increases
- Block - 4 increases
- Heavy Armor - 3 increases

Speed
- Athletics
- Acrobatics
- Light Armor

Agility
- Security - 2 increases
- Sneak - 8 increases
- Marksman

Personality
- Mercantile
- Speechcraft (major)
- Illusion (major)

Intelligence
- Alchemy
- Conjuration (major)
- Mysticism (major)

Willpower
- Alteration (major)
- Destruction (major)
- Restoration

In the above example you have exactly 10 increases in Strength, Endurance and Agility. Also you have 10 increases in a Major skill ie. Blunt. You didn't waste a single skill point and you will get the +5 bonus in the three skills you selected.


MORE REALISTIC LEVEL UP

Strength
- Blade - 4 increases
- Blunt (major) - 5 increases
- H2H - 1 increase (blocking without a weapon in hand will increase H2H)

Endurance
- Armorer - 3 increases
- Block - 4 increases
- Heavy Armor - 5 increases

Speed
- Athletics - 9 increases
- Acrobatics - 2 increases
- Light Armor

Agility
- Security - 2 increases
- Sneak - 12 increases
- Marksman - 7 increases

Personality
- Mercantile - 4 increases
- Speechcraft (major)
- Illusion (major)

Intelligence
- Alchemy
- Conjuration (major)
- Mysticism (major)

Willpower
- Alteration (major)
- Destruction (major) - 5 increases
- Restoration - 7 increases

In this example you will still get your +5 to Strength/Endurance/Agility, because you have at least 10 total skill increases in each of those categories. You also have triggered your level up by getting 10 total points in major skills (ie. 5 in Blunt and 5 in Destruction.) This example isn't nearly as efficient as the first example however. You Used your Restoration for healing, you increased your Athletics and Acrobatics (almost impossible not to.) You also sold stuff (ie Mercantile) and you had more than 10 total skill increases in both the Agility and Endurance categories. Finally, you had a difficult time getting 10 total major skills to level up, so you said f*@k it, and launched Flares at giant rats and wolves just to level up before some of your other skills grew out of control.

You shouldn't worry too much about this scenario however. As long as you try to level up before your skills get much past 10 in each category you want to attribute points to, you will be able to level all your attributes to max.

I hope this helps. If there are any veterans here that see anything wrong with my examples PLEASE correct me. Like I said, I'm a newbie trying to learn all this myself.

It's important to remember that efficient leveling does not mean "exact leveling." That is, you don't need to get only, exactly 10 points under 3 attributes (i.e., 10 pts between the three skills of an attribute) and then level up. You can do that, of course, but it isn't at all required in order to still level efficiently. You will always have points that you can "waste" even with efficient leveling.

In fact, leveling exactly can cause problems as the enemies start getting more varied and diffcult. You could wind up in a position after a few levels of exact leveling where you start running into enemies that are resistance/immune to the few skills you've developed, but the skills you avoided in order to avoid wasting any points at all are the ones you need to handle these new enemies.

In addition, it's also important to understand that some skills level very, VERY easily compared to others. For example, all three skills under Intelligence level extremely easily even if they are not specialized (i.e., not specialized in Magic) and not major. Those three skills are Alchemy, Mysticism, and Conjuration, and all three of them simply do not need very many uses at all in order to gain a point, not even as nonspecialized minor skills, and not even when they are very high level (75-100).

In contrast, skills like Armorer or Mercantile (or Athletics, most definitely) require many, MANY uses before they will gain a point, and this becomes much more apparent once they are between 25-50 or so, let alone 75+.

The same thing applies to Destruction and Restoration, but there's a caveat. Specifically, there are many, many uses for Destruction and Restoration, whereas a skill like Armorer has very few uses (basically, you have to have a damanged weapon/armor to use it, or you cannot use it). Therefore, even though Destruction and Restoration require many uses to gain a point, there are so many ways to use those schools of magic that it is much easier to level them than a skill such as Armorer.

Obviously, roleplaying can limit these observations. I am not including roleplaying restrictions of any kind, only speaking of the way the skills compare to each other.

My suggestion is to aim for getting pretty much all skills to 25. Below that, they're almost worse than useless. However, you have to balance that target with how you play and your character build., plus how easy/difficult it is to level the skills. You have points to waste, but if you waste points in Athletics while it is low (for example), you may find it very difficult to develop Speed later on, at least as far as using Athletics at all for that purpose. Therefore, you may want to develop Speed using Athetics and Acrobatics in the early levels, then forget about those skills once they reach 25 or so, relying solely on Light Armor to develop Speed and max it out later. That's my general approach because it fits my character builds and personalities (roleplaying) but other characters/builds/players may need something a bit different.

After 25, you aim for 50. Then 75 for the main skills you use.

You can read the three general strategies on the UESP wiki. However, I will state that I find using majors that are NOT used to be by far the best approach because it allows me to use any or all of my commonly used skills without worrying about leveling. I can play as I like and it makes sense for my characters. Too many people assume that "major" means "used most often" but that is not the case, nor does it need to be. Just because other RPGs use that approach doesn't mean that all games need to do so. It's nice to see a game franchise use a different approach, I think.