Yep Velorien got it :thumbsup:

Is it really an exploit though?

Anyway, an easy way to actually fix it, would involve making sneak only increase if you're covering distance, not just walking.

I like the idea of getting Sneak Attack criticals, or stealing while sneaking contributing as well though.

To the people that are concerned about the way sneak can be lvled up and use the word "exploit" It only becomes an exploit if/when you exploit it. It's your game, you choose how to play it.

How about you have to be moving? I can't think of many ways to exploit that.

You just reinforced his argument, that means that it gives you an edge over combat and magic based characters.

ALSO: I thought you needed a guy to be around for you to level sneak. Of course, that means you can just autorun near rufio or in a jail cell.

Well yes.
Just as casting destruction spells a lot gives mages an unfair advantage over thieves when it comes to destruction?

And even if you have to be moving, what is stopping a guy from programming a simple macro to sneak circles around an NPC.
You cant counter for these things, because it is intentionally circumventing normal playstyle.
If you took into account each and every way such a thing is possible you would end up with a very limiting and sterile linear game. Look at bioware for good examples.

You cant work against all of these things, its pointless and unneeded. I hope they focus on catching and removing things like the floating paintbrush glitch or the infinite money glitch, wich are of a different category alltogether.
Those are also unintended features, but in this case its very easy to run across them, you dont have to metagame for it.

still, the system should not take blame for people who choose to grind skills, they will always exist, I garuantee people will find ways to grind skills in SK. I think most peoples issue was that they thought they had to jump around a bunch for hours to increase acrobatics, which is true, but that could have been easily fixed by making acrobatics level up slightly quicker so that its progression was possible for a natural development in context to natural game play. we should not let people who exploit flaws in a system determine what stays in a game or not.

So make it like attributes were in Oblivion?

You know the thing they wanted to FIX?

EDIT:

Thing is that athletics, acrobatics grinding wasn't an exploit, but it was an error. Without major skills you would be able to gain experience and level up just by jumping and running, which is just wrong.

No, no no no no no.
Then you can't play a non-violent thief. Awful idea.

that still doesn't validate the complete removal of a gameplay aspect. it would only have a significant impact on leveling up if you jump all the time, I assuming you and me are alike in the sense that we would not abuse the ability to level up quickly by jumping over and over again. some people would, but content from the game should not be scrapped because some people would abuse it and then complain it was too easy. again, thats not the fault of the system, its user error.

A simple code test could easily rectify this sort of exploit, simply check the x,y,z position of player within the current cell. If the player is moving (key pressed) but those numbers arn't changing then don't advance the skill.

Hopefully the player movement animations will just stop when an object is encountered in Skyrim and exploits like the example you posted have been identified and addressed.

His argument was that Sneak had the same problem as Athletics and Acrobatics, it had nothing to do with having an edge over other combat styles. My argument was explaining why Athletics and Acrobatics were taken out: because EVERYONE uses them all the time and they aren't special, but Sneak is still only used by stealth characters. They weren't removed because they were exploitable. All skills can be increased by exploits.

No, I didn't wanted to abuse it, but I still jump and ran all the time because it was a faster way to travel (especially in Morrowind).

Everybody abused it on some extent whether they wanted or not.

i wasn't being sarcastic when I said I did not think you would or were abusing such things.

the only time I just jumped in one spot to increase my acrobatics skill was when I first found out about the doging perks tied to it. I never jumped enmass all the time.

also, its not smart to jump around to travel even if it is faster, it lowers your fatigue.

Main point is that beth should do away with the whole "stuff you do makes what your doing level up" which sounds all immersive and everything, but it just makes you end up second guessing what should just be fun, like "o wait I shouldn't have used that spell/ability/attack because I want my character to not level up that skill at this moment" etc etc it lacks pacing and control, I mean the only thing wrong with the old neverwinter nights/baulders gate etc etc way of leveling was that it was overly complicated and so infrequent that it messed up the difficulty curve.

I'd ask if you were high, but that might be against the rules.

It's been like this since Morrowind, and I like it much more than the idea of TES readopting a general XP bar, that would really svck. I LOVE having a new and different level up system, it shows that the developers really worked hard at trying to provide a truely unique gameplay experience.

May I point out that if I really wanted to cheat, I open up console (~) and just change a variable number.

Granted though, that if you are on a console you cant use console, I ironic no?



^ This, the leveling system is an elegant one, I LOVE it and would be seriously dissapointed if it became fallout wise.

Complicated? You kill things, complete quests and you get XP, that's not complicated.

What always annoyed me in these traditional RPGs is that the main XP sources was killing monsters. But what if you're a stealthy character? You would lose a lot of valuable XP just by sneaking past enemies (I got underlevelled in some games this way).

In TES games both ways would be equal. If you sneak past your sneak skill gets better, if you kill the thing, your weapon skill gets better. This "get better by practicing it yourself" thing always made more sense to me than, suddenly learning new things when I just rescued a kitten.

this... it works in so many other ways

I completely disagree. That's the thing that has always made the Elder Scrolls special and it's a great way of leveling up. It makes the most sense of any system ever.

How do you get better at fighting with a sword? By fighting with a sword.

Just because some games might have implemented that in a way you didn't favor doesn't mean the whole idea is bad. There aren't many things they could take out in TES that I'd instantly and inarguably be upset about, but removing the way one levels up a skill is one of them.

I think Velorien has got it, not everyone sneaks.

Take my Sheildmaiden I'm currently playing in Oblivion, she's a warrior, she doesn't sneak and hide from her opponents....unless she's trying to raise her agility attribute....cause you know...being staggered and all....

Well that's something I'm definitely not going to miss in Skyrim.

But since were on the subject...what are they going to do about Mercantile? Since everyone buys and sells crap. Are they going to remove it? or are they going to tweak it so it only applies if you hit some kind of haggle button?

Uhhh, yep...I definitely said the same thing already. Idk why people who were/are reading this thread don't see the obvious answer and accept it.....

Fix the skill leveling, and you remove any exploitation and make everything fair. So simple it's astounding.