For TES, there are much much more TES-players on consoles than on the PC. But exactly how many who are playing today that were originally console players, we don't know.

"Question: Do you see any differences between the Elder Scrolls community ten years ago and now? Have the console releases of Oblivion influenced the community in any way?"

"Answer: "It's a bigger community and the console releases (Morrowind for Xbox, Oblivion for 360 and PS3) have certainly played a large part in that. The number of people playing Oblivion on consoles definitely trumps what you d ever see on the PC. Of course I can't tell you how many times I've heard folks say they first played Morrowind or Oblivion on console, and later moved to the PC to participate in the modding community."

Source: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Articles.Detail&id=89

Still, a reason for why there may be more sales on the consoles for TES could be that the PC version haven't gotten the attention it deserves. If the PC version would take use of the huge advantage of power it has over the consoles, then I think the reality would be very very different of how many people actually play on PC and consoles. Then I think it would be the opposite, that the great majority would play on PC instead of consoles, since it would have extra features and be able to use more of its power.

Of course, how do used sales figure into those numbers as well? I'd guess they don't, and that's much larger on consoles.


re: DLC - I only bought two FO3 DLC, and am not buying any FO:NV. I didn't get any Oblivion DLC until I bought a GotY copy in February. I wouldn't assume that "buy the DLC" is default. It may be greater than 50%, but not nearly all. :shrug:



My point is, given how "DX11 capable" is mostly standard for current cards (is it?), there are probably a good number of people who aren't strongly aware of "I've got a DX11 system, BOOYAH!" even though they do (or phrased differently, just because someone has Win7 and a modern GPU, doesn't mean they're part of the DX11 Fanclub).

I don't see where you're getting the idea that digital sales aren't included from.

http://www.vgchartz.com/methodology.php

The site doesn't update very often - probably because it needs to be really accurate, since its figures are used by the Guinness Book of Records. It hasn't counted DLC for any platform yet: check back in 6 months, it will probably look different then. If it outright didn't include such information, there wouldn't be a blank where the figures will later go. It could be that the companies only release figures after year-end, hence such a delay.

When I checked the site four months after Fallout 3's launch, it was just putting the information in from the initial sales. I calculated then that PC sales were probably about 15%, when overall figures were much lower. So it's now dropped by 2.5% now more numbers are in. Even assuming they underestimated PC sales by 20%, that would still only bring us back to 15% of total sales. If their PC figures were out by 100%, it would still only account for a quarter of all sales.

There really isn't any other way to look at it: when Pete said that he thought that a guess that console sales were about 90% is probably not far off, he was telling the truth.

On the other hand, sales in brick and mortar shops bring in much less revenue than the same price over steam - so the game can be heavily discounted there and still be worth as much as a 'physical' sale. There are simply too many unknown variables to properly speculate.

@stomper; From the figures given for the DLCs across the board - 0.00m. The physical copies of the DLCs - the weird two pack things that got sold, *do* have figures. Now, either they don't count digital sales, or however they're counting is fundamentally flawed. Neither one lets them be used as decent figures.

I obviously didn't explain well enough when I said that there's a delay in the figures being published. Uh. There's a delay in the figures being published. Check the site in 6 months' time and you'll see sales figures for DLCs. I also obviously didn't explain well enough that when the game first came out the numbers were lower but the PC proportion was estimated at around 15% and that though the numbers across all three platforms are now higher, that ratio isn't hugely different now. I therefore predict that in 6 months or a year, the numbers will be different again but that it is extremely unlikely that the PC proportion will suddenly jump to 43%.

Another set of numbers: Chart-Track on-launch shipping of Fallout 3 as 55% on Xbox 360, 28% on PS3, and 17% on PC. Yes, that's more than 12.5%, but still nowhere near 43%.

One of the reasons you'll find it hard to find accurate sales data for Bethesda games is because, as a private company, they're not obliged to tell anyone anything. It's only when they specifically decide to release the information that we know how many games have been sold.

Even so, just because you're not entitled to the information doesn't justify calling someone a liar because you can't find the exact numbers to back up what they said.

I do not know what the actual numbers are, but I do know that the selection of PC games now offered at Best Buy and GameStop is dismal. A few weeks ago, I went looking in these two stores for Fallout 3, and could not find it. If you visit GameStop's home page, "PC" is the very next-to-last tab to the right; "XBox 360" and other consoles come first. If you want to purchase a boxed version of Fallout 3 from GameStop's website, forget it. All they offer is a digital download. Best Buy's in-store PC game selection -- which a few years ago was a few long rows of centrally-located, well-stuffed shelves -- now consists of one tiny display of the top new releases and one set of shelves with a smattering of old, used, and new games, and a lot of empty space, all shoved off to one out-of-the-way corner of the store. GameStop's selection is even worse. Console games, however, are prominantly displayed and abundant.

When something doesn't sell well in a retail store, it gets dropped. Floor space is expensive, and you don't waste it by filling it with things that aren't selling. The figures quoted by Princess Stomper could explain what I see in the stores. Your figures do not.

I never studied how to grow a business, but it makes sense to me that you would make stronger marketing efforts in the area you wish to grow. However, regarding your largest customer base, "You more or less disregard them and give them the bare minimum they will cope with" sounds more to me like something you do only when you plan to replace that base with another. Because Skyrim is a new game, not an game already familiar to your existing customer base, it seems reasonable to market it to your existing customers just as fervently as you marketed your previous games. It seems unsafe to take it for granted that your customers will be excited about a new product just because they enjoy the old one.

If there's a delay of 6 months, then why are the year old DLCs still counted as zero, and the /newer/ retail releases counted as above zero?

I realise Bethesda is under no obligation to tell anybody anything - that's actually my whole gosh darn point. We don't have the figures to back *anything* up, from "PC gaming is dead" to "PC gaming is the vast majority" - neither of those have *any* figures at all.

I think you'll also find I've never called anybody a liar. I've questioned the validity of "10%", but only because we're attributing solid meaning to it. Bethesda have absolutely no reason to lie, but at the same time they have absolutely no reason to bring accurate sales figures to an interview.

I'm a console gamer primarily.

Most console gamers dont give a rat's *** about hurt pride. They simply dont bother to post on these forums.
I cant believe this thread isnt locked yet. It's turned more constructive, but the original post is so inflammatory.

What this boils down to is a few loud members of the PC community getting hurt that someone has burst their bubble. The truth has been there for years, that PC gaming sales have been in decline for a while. But you cant tell anyone on this forum that, nor any other gaming forum that has a PC fan base. You just get shouted down, have people effectively covering their ears shouting "lalalalala" and otherwise flamed for even suggesting that console gaming might be popular, or, even good.

The original post in this thread I believe sums up all the rage from the fanatical PC gaming community because a developer has said "you know what guys, as much as we love you, you just aren't the sole focus any more". And rather than svck it up and accept that, we get threads like this one basically trying to claim it must all be lies, hopelessly scrabbling for any thread of hope to cling on to.

It really isn't a big deal. I dont see why anyone has to attach themselves so violently and ridiculously to a gaming platform. It isnt you. No-one is physically assaulting you. If you love your PC so much, by all means try to insert appendages into its various ports, but please stop trying to bring everyone else down with you.

Finally, it's all very well pointing out how great PCs ***can*** be in comparison to consoles (and that gap has natrually widened as this current generation of consoles ages), but you know what? Most people dont want to spend ￡1000 to ￡2000 on a machine that isnt always reliable, has to install games, means you have to worry about hardware and software compatibility issues.

Developers have an easy time with a console because at least they know that that is the industry standard. Two consoles currently on the market viable for Skyrim. Very easy to develop on. Look at it from their point of view. 90% of their sales came from consoles, and when they release on the consoles, they know that every single one of their customers can buy that game off the shelf and have it work instantly with no fuss. No worries about what operating system they're using, or what drivers they have installed.
And in terms of quality, really the best PC money can buy still doesnt make enough of a difference over the current gen of consoles. The way some of you talk, anyone would think we're comparing the graphical quality of Frogger and Crysis. Whereas what we're really talking about is "wow, on the console I can only see ten miles into the horizon, on the PC I can see 11 miles!". That sort of stuff isn't a care for most people.

Just svck it up and move on. If you dont like consoles, then dont buy one. The rest of the world though isn't going to change just because you don't like them.

FWIW, that has a lot to do with that statement being factually inaccurate. PC gaming has seen year-on-year growth - what it hasn't seen is year-on-year growth as large as console gaming.

Sure, I get what you're saying. Probably indicative of gaming in general becoming so much more popular.
And for what it's worth, I *do* play games on my PC, but I just use it for MMOs really. That's my personal choice, but I dont hate my PC, and nor do I love my console (well, my new one I kinda do because I got to replace my old 360 that sounded like an F14 on take-off and only had 20G of space ). I just buy whatever is convenient for me.
Personally, I dont like the uncertainty of buying something on my PC and wondering whether it will work. Even some of my friends who spent loads of money on their machines have the same worries. Can those problems be fixed? Yeah, sure they can. But usually it comes down to either shelling out more money for parts, or having enough technical know-how to fix the problem yourself (assuming it isnt just hardware failure/inadequacy). For me, I dont need or want that hassle, I just want to get home from work, open a beer and put in Halo Reach or something.

I know the above might offend some people on this forum (it shouldnt do, but it does because we seem to have such angry people), but it's not meant to. I'm just trying to give another point of view. So people like the OP who cant comprehend why Bethesda's figures are accurate, can maybe have some frame of reference.

I'm really not sure what this has to do with Skyrim. I'm not sure why considering the combined console market is larger than the pc market is lying or misinformation. There are people who don't want the hassles that pcs can have, and have no use for a pc other than the internet. There are other people who don't want the locked in limits of a console, and have other uses for a pc other than gaming, and don't mind the hassles that pc can have. Bethesda is still releasing the game for all the platforms and doesn't seem to be considering cutting any of them out in the near future.

If the op wants to discuss Bethesda's figures and pc gaming, start a new thread in Community Discussion, because this isn't limited to Skyrim.