Improvemnts for AI in Skyrim : V

» Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:14 am

What do you guys think would make the Companion AI a little less life threatening and stressful ? :brokencomputer:

I find companions in the fallout series and the temporary companions (mazoga) in oblivion were unbeleivably annoying ! hands up if anyone has ever :

1) had a companion stand in front of and block something your trying to access
2) they attacked mobs of enemies that didn't notice you and are way too strong for you
3) they kept getting stuck in walls and couldnt make it over any space that required so much as a hop
4) set off all the traps around you to run kill a hostile rodent !
5) gotten very annoyed that the AI walks in the most urgent of matters and incredibly slowly , oblivion , 2 brothers defending their farm

I could go on...

Now I know the AI can't be made to be perfect but this is just setting goals for the future

I think the companions as long as they are quantity over quality is ok for my style as you dont have so much depth to the companion so they are more expendable like mercenaries :gun: and you dont feel the AI has failed if they act like complete morons. :poke:

Some might say "don't use companions" which i probably won't as they just get in the way :flamethrower: but if i chose the option I'd like the companions to be competant and have some judgement :read: and not take on a gang of ogres just cus they happen to be nearby and end up getting you killed. Maybe a algorithm to work out the probability of survival and they dont engage if the figure is iffy :bolt:

What do you guys think would improve the AI , be as specific as you want , its open to NPCs , Companions etc. :tops:

:tes:

» Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:04 pm

It has been 5 years.

Im pretty sure the AI is better.

» Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:10 am

It has been 5 years.

Im pretty sure the AI is better.

Im talking more of what would your ideal AI be :disguise:

» Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:36 am

First, yes, I hated how it felt that there was somebody staring at me from Anvil when I was in the starting dungeon.

Second, my ideal AI would be somebody that can recognize a power attack (if they're in) and block when you swing, and if you try and turtle, they sidestep.

Third, moar lively economy.

» Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:49 pm

First, yes, I hated how it felt that there was somebody staring at me from Anvil when I was in the starting dungeon.

Second, my ideal AI would be somebody that can recognize a power attack (if they're in) and block when you swing, and if you try and turtle, they sidestep.

Third, moar lively economy.

Yeah , the enemies standing there and taking there punishment like they felt bad for hitting you was off , and bringing an axe back over your head when running up to a beggar somehow implied "ask me for money"

The economy did seem awfully non existant , I don't know what the problem was there , i mean obviously it's the fact that every shop in cyrodils sole form of income was you , apart from that one dude in the mystic emporium :blink: but I think the situation should be easily remedied as the taverns and inns always had a decent crowd , even if they were doing immitations of mannequins

, I didn't understand why they had every shop in the Imperial city of all places , supposed capital city ! had no one in any shops and was grossly under populated :wacko: hopefully they will add crowds to shops and maybe an apprentice blacksmith or something along with the blacksmith just to show there is an economy , no great depth , just a guy in blacksmithing attire doin his own thing in the workshop

its the little things that go a long way :dance:

» Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:41 pm

......
2) they attacked mobs of enemies that didn't notice you and are way too strong for you
5) gotten very annoyed that the AI walks in the most urgent of matters and incredibly slowly , oblivion , 2 brothers defending their farm
...

I think there should be some feedback function. Like if you go stealth, they do too. Or they go stealth suggesting you should too. A simple self preservation check comparing the levels of enemies in line of sight and group average should do the trick. This would allow nice ambushes too. I remember a game like this but I can't remember now.

» Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:37 am

What do you guys think would make the Companion AI a little less life threatening and stressful ? :brokencomputer:

I find companions in the fallout series and the temporary companions (mazoga) in oblivion were unbeleivably annoying ! hands up if anyone has ever :

1) had a companion stand in front of and block something your trying to access
2) they attacked mobs of enemies that didn't notice you and are way too strong for you
3) they kept getting stuck in walls and couldnt make it over any space that required so much as a hop
4) set off all the traps around you to run kill a hostile rodent !
5) gotten very annoyed that the AI walks in the most urgent of matters and incredibly slowly , oblivion , 2 brothers defending their farm

I could go on...

Now I know the AI can't be made to be perfect but this is just setting goals for the future

I think the companions as long as they are quantity over quality is ok for my style as you dont have so much depth to the companion so they are more expendable like mercenaries :gun: and you dont feel the AI has failed if they act like complete morons. :poke:

Some might say "don't use companions" which i probably won't as they just get in the way :flamethrower: but if i chose the option I'd like the companions to be competant and have some judgement :read: and not take on a gang of ogres just cus they happen to be nearby and end up getting you killed. Maybe a algorithm to work out the probability of survival and they dont engage if the figure is iffy :bolt:

What do you guys think would improve the AI , be as specific as you want , its open to NPCs , Companions etc. :tops:

:tes:

Well. . . I created a spell. Called it damned fool's salvation. It charmed 100% and caused invisibility for 60 seconds. I had no further problems out of the morons I sometimes brought along, so long as I spotted enemies before they did.

I think the best thing would be if they took more orders. Like "sneak and attack nothing" which can be changed at any time by interacting and commanding them to "attack all hostiles"

» Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:41 pm

-Having her hands up and doing the wave-

Totally agree with you on this one. I usually didn't bring along companions for exactly the reasons you named...Unless it was the Adoring Fan. Then I would just enter a dungeon, sit back and watch him go "Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" running around like the idiot he was until he met he end....which was rather quickly I must say but always amusing to watch.

I usually get frustrated by companions, mostly because just when I would fire an arrow at some poor sod they would move directly in my line of fire, get shot and get pissed because I hit them. Learned my lesson after six attempts and never brought a companion along again unless I really wanted them to die.

Hopefully and most likely this will be resolved in Skyrim. So no more frustrations and pissed off travel friends. YAY. Unfortunately it will also mean that something else is going to frustrate us to no end that we didn't notice before or hadn't been added yet. Games are after all a fun mix of pleasure to the point of victory dances and frustration to the point of wanting to throw your screen to the ground so you can stomp on the source of said frustration. I already lament the loss of many a screen.

» Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:07 am

In Oblivion the AI is working in a very weird manner which I call daily scheduled lobotomy. I want this to change.

The Radiant AI tells an NPC to eat/sleep between specific times of day. Like

5-6 eat
22-6 sleep.

AI actually works because when told "eat", they search for food, in their inventory and nearby locations. If their responsibility is low, they even steal it. They decide which seat they should take on their own.

Same for sleep But this means NPCs don't get hungry/sleepy actually, they are being told only. Even funnier not all NPCs have an eating/sleeping schedule which must have been default for all.

Rather, there should be a hunger(or energy) variable that slowly increase and after a set threshold triggers eat AI package. So if player can make an NPC delay its launch routine, player can make them get hungry midday allowing opportunities for thieves(clashing the absence of guards with owner's). Same goes for sleep routines*. AI packages shouldn't switch like in Oblivion but be active at all times with different priorities and it should be bound to dynamic sleep/thirst/hunger variables. So they should decide to sleep/eat on their own, not because it is set in editor, (5-6 eat). Emergent gameplay.

PS. Off course their responsibility level will prevent them from stealing food. They can travel and think about eating at the same time. They don't have to die because of hunger. If they stay hungry for a long time, their responsibility levels can decrease slowly. If they have the potential to become thieves then so be it.

PPS. http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22392 mod adds some very valuable interactions between AI and player. I want to see that too.

Spoiler

Applies these behaviors to actors: Creatures flee, Fight or fly, NPCs yield.
Increases the player's Fame for 25 surrendered NPCs that stay alive.
Increases the player's Infamy for 25 humiliating looting of surrendered NPCs.

Creatures flee
==============
Creatures (wolves, horses, etc.) have high survival instincts and will flee before they die.
This is effected by adjusting their confidence in regards to their health.
Their confidence is adjusted by their health percentage: (confidence = base confidence * current health / max health).
Disable this feature in the INI file by setting "creaturesFlee" to 0.

Fight or fly
============
NPCs will flee from opponents that would be too tough for them to win against.
Before entering combat, NPCs will compare their "level" with their opponent's "level".
If their level squared (level^2) is less than 50% of their opponent's level squared, they will run away.
NPCs, however, will never run away from the player - except when they yield.
Disable this feature in the INI file by setting "fightOrFly" to 0.

NPCs yield
==========
NPCs will surrender to their opponent when the rate of their health-loss will result in their death in the next instant.
To prevent the NPCs from re-attacking their subduer, their disposition is set to 100 towards their subduer.

Yielded NPCs will be "killed" by the mod When the player moves to a distance of 5000 or more from them.
Going through a "load" door is sufficient to put the player too far away from NPCs.
This would complete quests in which the player is required to kill the NPCs.

NPCs that satisfy the conditions below will never yield:
1. has at least one quest item in their inventory.
2. has a responsibility below the value given in "responsibilityForYieldBehaviour" in the INI file.
By default, this is 0 which allows all NPCs to yield.
3. is in the Daedra, Kyn, Mythic dawn or Undead faction.

Fame and infamy
===============
Every 25 surrendered NPCs that stay alive will give the player 1 Fame point.
Surrendered NPCs will now have these new dialogue options:
1. Get out of here!: The NPC will run for the a "load" door and use it to remove themselves from the game.
This is a method to keep NPCs alive for that Fame point.
2. Give me what you are willing!: The NPC will give the player random items from their inventory.
3. Give me everything you have!: The NPC will grudgingly offer the player everything that they have - including their clothing/armour.
This is humiliating for NPCs and 25 of these actions will give the player 1 Infamy point.

Although I heard giants will ignore the player which is not something covered in this mod but could be included because it shares the same logic. Gives me some hope for its other logical features.

» Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:25 pm

I want companions that act in response to the kind of character I'm playing, if I'm a stealthy low key character then the companion should know not to make a lot of noise, and maybe could steal some loot for me or let me know about useful places to steal stuff. If I'm tired then maybe the character could drag us both to an inn to get some sleep, or if I'm about to enter a scary dungeon that's way over my level, the companion could refuse to enter.

The companions also should definitely have more opinions about everything, about the quests we're doing, the ethics we're maintaining, the condition of our armor, the loyalty to our factions, etc. etc. and they should DEVELOP as characters as the story progresses. That itself would make a huge difference to the gameplay.

» Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:23 am

Rather, there should be a hunger(or energy) variable that slowly increase and after a set threshold triggers eat AI package. So if player can make an NPC delay its launch routine, player can make them get hungry midday allowing opportunities for thieves(clashing the absence of guards with owner's). Same goes for sleep routines*. AI packages shouldn't switch like in Oblivion but be active at all times with different priorities and it should be bound to dynamic sleep/thirst/hunger variables. So they should decide to sleep/eat on their own, not because it is set in editor, (5-6 eat). Emergent gameplay.
...
PS. Off course their responsibility level will prevent them from stealing food. They can travel and think about eating at the same time. They don't have to die because of hunger. If they stay hungry for a long time, their responsibility levels can decrease slowly. If they have the potential to become thieves then so be it.

All good ideas. The one caveat I'd throw in is: give animals and creatures a separate responsibility-like attribute so they don't report your crimes in this game.

» Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:31 am

All good ideas. The one caveat I'd throw in is: give animals and creatures a separate responsibility-like attribute so they don't report your crimes in this game.

Haha. I heard that one. This kind of bugs gives a unique personality to a game imo.

» Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:17 am

I want companions that act in response to the kind of character I'm playing, if I'm a stealthy low key character then the companion should know not to make a lot of noise, and maybe could steal some loot for me or let me know about useful places to steal stuff. If I'm tired then maybe the character could drag us both to an inn to get some sleep, or if I'm about to enter a scary dungeon that's way over my level, the companion could refuse to enter.

The companions also should definitely have more opinions about everything, about the quests we're doing, the ethics we're maintaining, the condition of our armor, the loyalty to our factions, etc. etc. and they should DEVELOP as characters as the story progresses. That itself would make a huge difference to the gameplay.

Exactly :foodndrink: No companions know how to properly sneak or stay unnoticed , maybe if the mercenaries in skyrim (assuming they will be mercs as they said the companions will be not as in depth) had classes , like a warrior , a rogue , mage etc. I never got why it was just swordsmen that were mercs in all the games iv'e played :confused:

PS : I forgot to mention in my original post but something that I think HAS to be fixed for the sake of player sanity is when someone is talking to you it's fine and normal but if you turn around , or just look off to the left , suddenly you can barely hear them as if your listening to them through a door :/ this was in oblivion and new vegas , same problems , ill be happy once that little kink is fixed