Levels of civilization/technology seem to have fallen back in Skyrim compared to Cyrodiil in the Oblivion times. This got me thinking about books. They are everywhere in Oblivion, including in lots of peasant houses. It seems that everyone in Cyrodiil could read. In the harsher world of Skyrim I'd have thought that few ordinary people would have had the opportunity/luxury of becoming literate and books should be much rarer.

in my opinion books should be rare and valuable items, as they were in early medieval Europe. Few should be able to read outside isolated pockets of learning anologous to medieval monasteries. I'm not saying there should be fewer actual titles, just that there should be a lot fewer copies of each one. Finding any book, for example in a dungeon should be a rare treat as they would be valuable loot, useless to the general public, but ultra desirable to those few who can read and who care about such things. This would set up an interesting dynamic that would lend itself to side quests. E.g., rumours of a lost library in dungeon X, hidden there in times past, hero is sent to investigate. Lots of other more imaginative plot lines involving book thefts, finding someone who can actually read a book you find etc etc.

Thoughts please.

That's a good point, actually. I had never thought about it before, but I agree with you. It would indeed be interesting if books were more rare and valuable (especially since I enjoy collecting books in game). And it would be nice to see more quest revolving around books (there was a book-related quest in the main Oblivion quest line, I can't remember off the top of my head if there were others).

Imagine if we could actually collect these books and put it in our libraries at home. That would be cool!

I'm sorry I can't read...

It would be nice to have them be a little bit rarer, and lend themselves towards learning new perks, locations, and crafting techniques. Much like how books were treated in Fallout 3 I suppose, but fitted towards Skyrims Game mechanics, cultural background, etc.

Very relevant remark. The side quest it would open could be long, difficult, very interesting. Fewer books with more substantial content would make any discovery of a book a delight for it give deeper access to the lore...

I totally agree. Keep the aspect of being able to read every book, so I don't mind the repetition in that respect, but there needs to be some hidden valuable books throughout the game!

Very good idea, if only for having a lot more collectable single copy books. But it definitely makes sense for less NPC literacy in Skyrim than Cyrodiil.

I had never thought about that before-which means it didn't bother me as it was.

Makes sense for medieval Europe, with it's feudal system and religious totalitarianism. The economy and status quo required keeping the great majority of the population ignorant and controlled.
But Tamriel is not Europe, Nirn is not Earth, and we have already seen in the previous games that their society is much more literate than historical Earth societies, and there is no political reason there for keeping the population from books and knowledge.
Therefore I have to disagree with the OP. Rare and valuable books yes, less of the popular books in circulation, no.

Good points, but while I'm not a history major, didn't lack of education have something to do with it? I mean the only thing I can think of as far as "education" in the past two games was the arcane university.

Appreciate that, but why would they put schools in games with no children?
All I am saying is historically the powers that be thought it necessary to actively deny education, Bibles in Latin, anyone? Whereas the proclivity of books in TES seems to suggest, to me anyway, that literacy and education is a fully accepted, normal, everday part of the fabric of their society.

Tamriel is far more advanced than medieval Europe, more 15-1600, upper and middle class people would be able to read.
Books are so common that they must have printing presses, letters is also common so it useful and often required to be able to read.
The main reason why literacy was uncommon before this was not suppression, most people learned it outside organized schools anyway until 19th century, but because it was no reason to learn it as you would never lay your hand on a book and perhaps receive a couple of letters in your life.

No.
Tamriel is not medieval Europa.
I really really wish people would stop referring to TES as 'back in the day' or 'medieval'. Its not.
I really dont know why people do this, I guess the difference between fantasy and history is a tough one.

The level of technology in the past elder scrolls games indicates that Tamriel is as advanced as we were in the renessaince.
They have advanced architecture, glassmaking and.. printing.
The existence of the printing press in Tamriel can be logically inferred by the amount of non-religious and non-law books.
The fact that there are so many novels, history books, books on daily life etc. clearly implies that the time printing was a novelty is way, way in the past.

So, no, books should not be rare.
As it would make no sense.

I agree that, of course Tamriel is not Europe. I also agree that in Cyrodiil a high level of technology was achieved, including,by inference, printing presses. I'm not arguing that Beth somehow 'got it wrong' by having huge numbers of books.

What I'm arguing is that society has moved backwards in the 200 years following the Oblivion crisis. This is almost inevitable following problems with dynastic succession, civil war, the destruction of Morrowind. This could have happened in a similar way to what befell the Roman Empire. Arguably the Roman Empire never actually fell, it just shrank, changed, was overrun by others who crowned themselves Emperor. Indeed some of it's institutions (most obviously the Catholic church) survive to this day.

So, in Skyrim, a weakened and reduced Empire hangs on at the cost of a loss of 'sophistication'. Old technologies are lost, including perhaps, printing; educational levels go down. literacy becomes rare. Life becomes nasty, brutish and short. This seems a reasonable senario.

There is some evidence for my view in the screenshots and video. Buildings seem to be made of wood, or older structures adapted for living. There's nothing we have seen so far that indicates the architectural sophistication of Skingrad or Anvil.

No big deal, just some speculation on my part. From a gameplay point of view it would be nice if books were rare and valuable.

Side note: Even today the world has only managed 82% advlt literacy (according to the CIA World Fact Book).

Less books in homes, more books in religious or aristocratic buildings.

Those are good points.
It is perfectly possible that there is some sort of interregnum going on and that life has regressed to mostly survival.
In that case I would expect repositories of knowledge, mages guild and temple libraries, and less books in peoples houses. More specialist books on magic or religion, less novels and plays.

But in Tamriel there are institutions that are empire sanctioned, but not neccesarily empire dependant.
We know there is still a structure of guilds, the Synod, the College of Whispers, undoubtably some sort of fighters guild.
Maybe without an empire charter they have become more independant and self-governing.
As the upstart church survived the Roman empire fragmenting into obscurity (and kept records and books important to them), so might an organisation of mages on Tamriel preserve magical knowledge within its own structure.

On knowldege such as literacy, glassmaking (might seem trivial but the level of glasswork seen in Oblivion is quite high-tech. 18th or 19th century for us), magic, divination (the elder scrolls themselves), architecture and construction I think it is important to note a major difference between how it work on Tamriel and how it does on Earth.

We have the legend of Prometheus, who stole fire from the gods and so changed the life of man forever.
We have Ganesh(a) who gave men the gift of the Mahabharata, a book of religion and philosophy that to this day influences peoples daily lives.

On Tamriel we can be certain that those kind of things are not a metaphor, a means to convey a deeper message, they really happen in the most literal sense of the word.
The Daedra Boethiah is directly responsible for part of the original Aldmer to become the Chimer, who became the Dunmer.
All manner of Dark Elven cultural advances are attributed to Boethiah, from philosophy to magic to 'responsible' architecture.

Now, I do not how much of Tamriels advances are gifts from the gods, but we can be certain they do bestow knowledge of both the mundane and arcane on their followers.

The point is: Would the fall of a worldy structure in a world that has both strong, semi-independant guilds and divine intervention cause a reduction in knowledge in the same way it would on Earth?
Once you steal/ are given fire by the gods in a world where they are very real in an in-your-face way can it be given back?

edit: Printing seems something I would associate with Herma-Mora, but I cant find anything on it on the UESP or Imperial library.

Yes book should be rarer, and more useful. Instead of just opening the book and getting a +1 skill boost (or perhaps I should say perks), you should actually have to read the whole book and garner the information to use practically, you actually have to apply some thinking to it on whatever subject it's on. And say if you find a book, for example concerning umbra, it could give you clue's to the items whereabouts.

Yea good points you made, it would be cool if reading certain books led to some sort of side-quest.

Books should be rarer for sure, I do remember overhearing an orc npc talkng to somone in oblivion and mentioning not being able to read. So not everyone can, although I bet if I broke into his house he'd probably would have had one book in there.
Maybe everyone just buys the books in order to impress people and make them think they can read

Not really. The political environment has changed, but the biggest change endured by Skyrim as a result of the Empire's collapse is the sudden large influx of Dunmer refugees that have integrated to become a local population of them. It's not the dark ages, it's just not a unified Tamriel anymore. Books have always been widely available and only slightly expensive in TES. Presumably this means either a very robust and well-funded effort to write and copy them or (far more likely, given how quickly they can copy and distribute the Black Horse Courier) some sort of printing press has been in existence for quite a while and is sufficient enough for the literary needs of the people.

That's not to say that there shouldn't be illiterates in the setting. Hell, Skyrim probably has quite a few, given how rugged and untamed the land is, littered with isolated settlements populated by people who probably consider books to be untrustworthy.

Given that the Black Horse Courier in Oblivion was just throwing around newspapers all over the place? Yes, it does seem that Tamriel has 1) well established printing technology, and 2) high literacy rates.


Ok.

Details of setting noted and accepted.


(And yeah... the "smarter" people had more books - every local Mage Guild library, for example.)

Cyrodiil is the most advanced province, their literacy rate is going to be much higher than others.

So naturally the people on Neptune's culture is strongly influenced by that of literate Scandinavian vikings...
We know Tamriel isn't medieval Europe, but I do think that we should take Tamriel for what it is. And I trust that Bethesda will keep it original, but you have to admit that there is Medieval European (among others) influence in the Elder Scrolls games.

I personally wouldn't mind books being more rare. But maybe not to the extent that that the OP said though. I would like if there weren't any bookshops. It would be more like you can buy an ancient magic book from a spell store, or find books in random places.

In terms of lore, you brought up the point that the people of Tamriel are more literate than historical earth societies. I agree with this, except I wouldn't see it as an issue of culture, but rather an issue of sources. I think it takes a lot of time and effort to make a piece of parchment paper, and we know that paper making wasn't the same in the cultures that Tamriel is influenced by as it is today. So I don't think we should be seeing peasants with a lot of books. Though maybe they could have one as an heirloom or something.

Lets not forget the ABC for Barbarians

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:ABCs_for_Barbarians


On Topic, I like the idea

I honestly do not care for it