I didn't notice it mentioned in the confirmed bug thread, but I have about 94 EW skill right now, and have a fully modded Laser Rifle (do not yet have Laser Commander Perk, only level 20 right now) with Max Charge ammo. I have 9 luck and the finesse perk and the 1st recon beret, so I crit often. I play on the 360.

I was up at Black Mountain, found 3 super mutant masters at loooooong range (just at the edge where they appear)

I scoped up, dropped the first one in two shots (sneak attack I'm sure helped that), then dropped the other two with a total of 9 more shots. I don't think I need to tell you how fast you can fire 9 shots from a laser rifle (especially since it has no recoil). The 2 other mutants were right near the first one I dropped and I was on "Caution" status in a crouch.

Then, a super master appears to my right with an incinerator, I wheel around and start shooting him with the rifle, and it barely scratches him, even when it says I'm scoring crits.

I've done the same thing with cazadores. I've wiped out entire legion camps at range with this thing from ridiculous distances. It's supposed to svck, but I don't know. Is there some sort of bug where this thing just obliterates everyone at long range? Is it misreading criticals at that range even though the enemy is alert? It seems like sometimes this weapon owns with critical hits, and sometimes it just does nothing at all. Is there some proper way to be using it?

I also read in a FAQ about weapons that multiple projectile weapons do a lot more crit damage out of vats than the equivlant DAM on a single-projectile weapon. Is this true? If so, does it apply to Laser Rifles with the beam splitter perk?

I want to get this thing to consistently perform.

The fatal flaw with the fully modded laser rifle is unless you can score sneak crits you cant do anything vs most mid range enemies. This is because you only get about 5.8 dam per laser for pentrating armor and well that just plain doesnt work.. Now YES the crits can up that a bit.. but in rt and none sneak thats still not enough to do much.

Its the neak crit and ONLY the sneak crit that will do. Those first 2 masters didnt know where you were the last one obviously did.

But they didn't know where I was for 4 shots? I find that hard to believe.

I find with guns I can get in a few shots and still be in stealth kill mode.. I expect the game gives you a second or two to get in 2 shots vs two targets close together or something.

I believe you only get a sneak critical when your character is "hidden". If "caution" is showing, you don't get the sneak critical. They may not know exactly where you are, but they know you're there.

I know what you mean about the laser rifle at long range though, it does seem to do better than when the enemies get close. I'm talking at really long range, like when they don't show up on your radar, and definitely out of VATS range.

Precisely. The thing was clearly doing monster regular crit damange. I even observed the upper-left corner, and it said "Critical Hit On Super Mutant Master" as opposed to "Sneak Attack Critical on ....."

I mean, technically, all the criticals you were doing, after the initial sneak critical, should have been doing the same damage, whether the mutant was at 5 or 500 ft. It doesn't make sense that the longest ranged shots are doing MORE damage. If anything, they should be doing less. I'll have to do some in-game experimentation on this. Now I'm curious.

Add: Does anyone know if a sneak critical and a regular critical do the same damage?

Sneak does double I believe, then an additional 50% if it happens to hit the head. What I'm suggesting is that the engine "breaks down" at that range and it sometimes gives you sneak crit damage for regular crits.

If you Laser Rifle is fully modded it can do twice the critical damage because you have 2 projectiles, each capable of critical. This isn't a bug.

And since Super Mutants DT is higher than your Laser Rifle's beam, you would do little damage to them if it wasn't critical.

right but read the whole thing, the crits on the first series were different than the second.

Like others said, sneak damage is further multiple by two. Another possibility is that your companion is discover and you are not.

If it's true about the beam splitter doing essentially two critical hits for the price of one, this should be apparent at all ranges, but the OP is saying that the laser rifle appears more powerful only at extreme range.

From what I understand, the beam splitter mod is broken. It actually shoots three beams at one third power, applying each hit separately so it's even less effective against DT, and does not apply the 30% bonus. It actually makes the laser rifle less powerful, if this is correct. I just re-read this on the wiki to see if it was still current info. Have you seen it score more than one critical hit in your game?

I believe any critical hit bypassed DT. So if you get a bunch of crits in a row your own. if not you wont do much damage to enemies wearing armor.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1141220-screenshot-evidence-that-overchargemaxcharge-means-nothing-to-dt/
Check it out, nothing ignore DT

XD if you read that thread it just establishes that the over charge and maxcharge Damage multipliers apply out of the "proper order". XD

Read my post at the page 3, with sneak/crit/normal hit on DT65 Marcus.

True, but that has nothing to do with sneak crits bypassing DT, just multipliers for OC/MC ammo NOT ignoring DT

Valkebus is right about each projectile from the beam splitter having the potential for a critical.

From the wiki:

"Weapons that fire several "shots" at the same time, such as Combat Shotguns (and The Terrible Shotgun), Metal Blaster (from The Pitt), the Tri-Beam Laser Rifle (from Broken Steel), and Paulson's Revolver (from Mothership Zeta) are some of the most effective weapons for sneak attacks (when done outside of V.A.T.S.). This is due to the fact that outside of V.A.T.S., each of the weapons' "shots'" critical damage is calculated individually. This aspect makes these weapons very effective in sneak attacks (and regular critical hits). With the right addition of perks, such as Better Criticals and Finesse, these weapons will be able to deal large damage consistently".

Notice that the wiki says "outside of V.A.T.S.". So, if the wiki is also correct about the beam splitter being broken, and actually having three beams, maybe it's actually getting three sneak criticals outside of VATS. (I know, I know, this is only speculation. I'm brainstorming here). And maybe, because all three beams are hitting simultaneously, you only see one sneak critical pop-up instead of more than one. This would make it look like it was just one sneak critical, but the damage would seem excessive.

What do you guys think?

Add: I just did some in-game testing. 1 Super Mutant Master, outside of VATS, once with the Beam Splitter, once without. The Beam Splitter was an improvement, but barely noticeable. Not what I had hoped.

Well in the WMX mod thread they mentioned that the beam splitter is bugged.

Yeah, it says that in the wiki too. I was just hoping that because of it actually having three beams instead of two (like it says in the wiki), that it would cause more critical damage, but that wasn't the case when I experimented with it. Just didn't make much of a difference. :sadvaultboy:

My bad,http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1141220-screenshot-evidence-that-overchargemaxcharge-means-nothing-to-dt/page__view__findpost__p__16682442

^^ Not sure I understand your post. What weapon were you using and did your tests show a critical attack bypasses DT? It does seem a critical does, but I never tested it out.

I did some more testing, and it appears I rang up consistent headshots. This thing is a headshot monster! Try nailing a master in the head with it and watch the damage the crit does (regular or sneak), it is phenomonal.

You want a weapon that consistently performs crits for devastating damage up close or far away get the Abilene Kid Limited Edition BB gun. Since you're playing a critter anyway I guarantee you'll appreciate a weapon that does 70 base crit damage before sneak, headshots, or difficulty is taken into account.