I am very curious about the Sync-kill moves.

The fact that there are axes, maces, swords, daggers, staffs and shields mean that bethesda will already have to think about a great many kill moves to keep the idea from becoming dull and repetitive. There are only so many finishing moves you can make for a two handed hammer – namely hammer connecting with head. (Perhaps they will have to make them a bit longer to give some variation? I think the mark of chaos trailer had some good ideas for hammer-kills)

The dual wielding system adds even more problems to the mix – players can use a nearly endless combination of different items, are they going to try and work out sync kills for each combination, or just develop some general dual-wield sync kills?

I think Dark Messiah had a good system for staff combat. Do we think we should be able to fight with a two handed staff? Or staff'n'sword, Gandalf style?

We can fight Gandalf-style, we can even use two staves! Though I do believe staves shoot and are not for hitting, so it won't really be the same...

Yeah i was a little worried about that. They were a pure 'shooty' option in Oblivion.

One does wonder from a game mechanics perspective if having a staff in one hand will open up new Sync kills though, even if it doesn't help out much in close combat.

There are no Finishing moves ! There are special actions with each weapon type, but no finishing moves, he has said this in at least 3 interviews.

Thats Oblivion. The trailer contains at least two finishing moves, and in their last press conference they showcased their first extended gameplay session. IGN, G4TV and gameinformer all reported back, and in all their articles Todd Howard gave special mention to the kill moves. That was less than a month ago, about the same time as the latest slew of interviews.

Link to part 1 of the G4TV article (contains mention of finishing moves at the bottom of the page, parts 2 & 3 contains more info on the kills)
http://www.g4tv.com/games/xbox-360/64714/the-elder-scrolls-5-skyrim/articles/74266/the-elder-scrolls-5-first-look-preview-part-1-welcome-to-skyrim/

Research is good

I think repetitive kill animations is better than just hacking people to death

probably right. Dark Messiah's combat wasn't ideal, and suffered from a lack of variety in sync-kills, but it was still the best First person close combat model i've ever seen. I wouldn't begrudge Skyrim for the same kind of system.

Agreed. And it's more than possible that there will be enough finishing moves that it'll never seem repetitive -- In the Assassin's Creed series, for instace, there's only thirty or forty finishing moves spread across ten different weapon types, but they never get old.
And, depending on how they work, I bet modders will jump on the opportunity to add more. Imagine the finishing moves mods we could get! Hundreds and hundreds of finishing moves! We'd never see the same one twice!

Oh, it does... it definitely does.


That, not really. Creating animations is a complex process. One sequence you see in game may require many small animations strung together, depending how fluid/complex the sequence is.... There aren't that many modders out there with those skills. They are out there, but not many.

Im looking forward to seeing some of these two handed weapons and sync moves, nothing like bashing a bandit upside the hide with a warhammer. B)

C'mon, allow me a LITTLE optimism

I always see people complaining about the fighting system in Assassin's Creed, but I don't know what world-class game they're comparing it to. The only one I've ever seen that was more well-built and entertaining was the one in Batman: Arkham Asylum (and Mount & Blade, I guess, but that's a whole other ballpark). It's got issues, sure, but compared to the exploit-ridden horrors in every other melee-based action-adventure, it's fantastic.

And anyways, I don't mean the combat in general. Obviously that's a subject of debate. I just mean that the amount of finishing moves in the game are spread out in such a way that there is a large variety without the actual number being very high.

you mean like AC style combat, fat chance, you kill your enemies by hitting them with your weapn, you do that by clicking (pc) or pulling a trigger (console) there are finishing moves but those are not supposed to happen frequently

True that. Come to think of it there could be a few fluid moves with a warhammer... Smashing a guy in the gut and then upswinging into the face when he doubles over...

**drool**

Does anyone else besides me think the finishing moves in age of conan were done perfectly with every single weawpon type having a unique set of finishers, (melee weapons being able to disbmember and even throw them from a distance into enemy torso etc, and spell finishers freezing enemy bodies/setting them on fire/ impaling with giant ice spike). would love to see something similar but for some reason i recall reading somewhere today that todd said there actually wont be finishers but just comboish attacks ill have to look for the quote

No, I'm just referring exclusively to the number of finishing move animations. There aren't that many in any one Assassin's Creed game, but it still feels like there are a lot because of the quality and versatility of each individual animation. That's all I'm wishing on Skyrim; high-quality, versatile finishing moves will go a long way towards feeling like there is a large variety, even if there aren't that many.


I keep seeing that quoted too, but the finishing moves are clearly evident in the trailer. I think he means you won't have to do a complicated Fatality-style button combo to pull them off, they're just purely for aesthetic effect.
That's just conjecture, though. He may mean something else entirely -- I just seriously doubt he means that finishing moves are not in the game.

actually I hadn't read your posts when I added my post, I was actually just adressing the op. I don't mind syncing if its for fancy flashy finishing moves, but not for TES general combat. I hated AC combat controlls so hard, it was all about button mashing and thats not what SK needs.

Oh, okay. What a weird coincidence!
Oblivion was all about button mashing, too. Any improvement over that I'll be happy with.

yeah im hoping for finishing moves for sure, i hate to keep bringing up age of conan lol but i just had to look up a youtube vid of some of the finishers and they do it so well, i sort of got a mix of that and assassins creed moves from the skyrim footage so hopefully it goes through idk

edit: again haha hate to keep bringing up the same game(just the mechanics im comparing) but combat wise i thought the mechanic in age of conan that required you to do longer multidirectional swings to pull off combos and/or finishers was a good idea and well done

The OP's point is the exact reason I am not a fan of the fatalities (or whatever you want to call them). With the amount of weapon variety in the game, I just don't see how they can create enough animations to keep it from getting old. I only hope that it is only triggered randomly (maybe every 20 kills) so that I don't get sick of seeing the same thing over and over.

Honestly, with them talking up the Havok physics and animation, I was hoping they could just have the enemy lose resistance to striking once their health was drained, and then just let the physics take over. That way, blunt weapons would have random devastating effects such as throwing the enemy back or smashing them into the ground, and bladed weapons could have a small chance of dismemberment, along with good ragdoll crumpling. That would be a much simpler, more realistic, and more effective way of displaying death than scripted kill cinematics imo.

last AoC reference i swear rofl pretty bloody http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc theres a slow-mo section towards the end at around 1:40. but yeah thats only one class and a few weapon types and still a huge number of unique finishers although i doubt skyrim would be that way but tbh anything they decide to add in im all for. excited to see whatever they have implemented. If its a few comboish style animations only midfight every now and then would still be great.

edit: also

theres quite a few mace finishers like you describe in that above link maybe something similar in skyrim could be cool

Im sure killing people in real life with a hammer or a sword gets repetitive too with the "finishing moves" But you don't really criticize that do you?
I think it they make it in a way like that, nobody will care.

I have noticed that the much lauded AOC sync kills are all against humanoid creatures.

Lets remember that Todd said there would be special ones for other creatures. That could lead to some cool kills if properly done, im thinking killing Trolls would be more satisfying than ever before. Although putting in kills for every weapon type on EVERY creature only furthers the possibility of finishers being too ambitious and being cut.

this is a very very good point i never thought of them with creatures although tbh if they were as well done as i thought they were in AOC i wouldnt mind them being humanoid specific.

edit: though i can see them being a bit easier to implement like all 4 legged creatures of similar size having the same ones etc to make it a bit quicker.

My big concern with finishing moves is how long are they, and once they start can we interupt them? In oblivion for example there could be a mob attacking you, and you must go quickly from one opponent to the next. Now imagine this same mob attacking, but then the pc starts some 2 second finishing move animation, all the while your wanting to turn and swing at the next guy. The witcher annoyed me due to this, he'd have to finish these long animations and my input was useless.

As long as these finishers only occur when you kill the LAST enemy in your area, or can be stopped when I hit attack/turn to the next opponent, or they happen in a split second, I'll be ok with them. The moment I loose control of the pc for even a split second, due to some crazy finishing animation that takes 4 seconds, I will go mad!

I'm confused.... :confused: some interviews say that there are finishing moves other say that there aren't. All I can say is that I saw the trailer and there were a couple of instances where the player did seem to be accomplishing a finishing move