Birthsigns always were a tool for character specialisation in The Elder Scrolls games, making the characters
unique, and providing the players alternative play styles. Their main flaw was, other than some of them
were them undeveloped, that the players had to choose them early on the game, possibly ruining their game experience with a bad choice.

Skyrim's focus seems to be on developing your character as you play the game, and not defining their fate in the first hours.
Thus the class-system was abolished, and now perks offer the players the specialisation.
But how far can the perks reach? Can they cover more skills? Can they fully replace the birthsigns and the attributes ?
These are questions yet to be answered.

What I propose is that birthsigns become special perks accessible only at high levels. By the time the player reaches 100 in 3-4 skills,
they will probably have a full-blown character. That's when the players should be offered to choose one of these "perks", with advantages
and, in some cases, disadvantages. This way the would not be forced to define their early on the game, and their in-game representative
could gain more depth.


Thanks for reading my Tl;dr suggestion, I would appreciate your opinions about it.

I didn't like this idea... sorry.

Birthsigns shouldn't be perk-like. If anything either it should be completely random, or it should have other effects than it used to.
Maybe less practical spells\damage\bonuses and more of the bypass effects. Birthsigns shouldn't effect your stats in such an obvious way.

And you're BORN with it, that's why they are called Birthsigns, that's one of the reasons I didn't like your idea...

I'm still wondering how a birthsign could ruin any game experience. Sorry, I can't get it. We have the manual and in game descriptions; how could anyone choose a "bad sign", how could a "bad sign" ruin your game experience?

Really, I can't understand why some people blame the game for their own "wrong" decisions; even if you picked some "mage" birthsign only to finish playing as a warrior, how could that ruin a game?

Sorry if it feels like a flaming post; it's not at all my intention. It's only that I can't understand the "ruin your game experience" Todd said and some people defend.

This happened to me when I chose to play as a magician Atronachs sign. I did not have enough Magicka regeneration. but this was my mistake. I still loved birthsigns

I don't care how Birthsigns are implimented, I just want them in the game. Even if they're just decorations or whatever.

you don't pick birthsigns at the beginning of the game (I.E you pick your race, how they look and your done) and it pretty much looks like Birthsigns are just in the perks and skills "sky" which is pretty much the only customization internally for your character...

besides Birthsigns effected attributes, and those aren't in either...


so :shrug:

Personally i believe that birthsigns should be chosen before the game begins (during char custimisation), but as MK said, all the previews so far about character custimisation have left it out (quite glarringly so as well)...

I do like the idea of birthsigns being used to further custimise you character, preferably just passive boosts to skills, regen, mana, health etc.

Ps. couldnt vote for some reason but i would have voted 1:no 2:yes

depending how you play your character you will see your birth signs in the sky. so there still in it

Birthsigns also offered spells and powers, not just attributes.

that sounds really cool, id be interested to read the source article if you still have it around?

As he said. Every birthsign is represented by a skill. Etc. destruction is a sign, and the more perks you choose in destruction the more it will light up, each perk being a star in the sign.

At the time i can't find a quote from Todd H but ill keep looking and get back

They would, if they've went to the other route, and make Birthsigns matter more with big advantages and disadvantages keeping trough the entire gameplay.

Otherwise birthsigns were weak and forgettable.


And I wouldn't mind with a birthsign choice later in the game, like with the Doomstones or Orrery.

No, it's my character's damn birthsign, not some skill he picks up later. <_<

Birthsigns have not always been a part of elder scrolls. Only 2 of the games had them.

This time they want to go a different route and so tada we are going a different route.

i read it somewhere ill tell you when i find it

I never liked the birthsign idea, they did a better job with the Advantage/Disadvantage system.

Sorry dude, but don't agree here birthsigns should be perks. If you wanted a high level perk that's kind of mystical, it'd make more sense to have some sort of aedra/daedra "favour".

Tbh, if choosing the wrong sign gimped you that much, you're doing something badly wrong...
Birthsigns should be something interesting that provide a little bit of fun. Kind of like the serpent sign's poison. You choose it, you can play around with it when you're bored, but most of your combat revolves around stuff you've developed your character for.

I like it. The birthsigns only came out with morrowind. Most of them was just plan useless or something you just did not use as often.

I like how they redid them It was better then the perks you got from leveling up my skills. I like being able to choose perks. This new system. They keep dumbing down the skills but the new perk systems at less makes it feel less dumbed down. The think I fear is the perks are going to be just pure garbage. They have not said anything useful about the perks.

Axes bleed. Well is that every hit? If not how often does it proc. How much damage do the do per tick? I loved daggerfall cause the skills where not confusing as can be unlike areana. Yet there was enough skills to make me feel like an legend. Morrowind dumbing down I could deal with as it was decent.

Well actually better implement Birthsigns as starting traits thats will be most flexible way,
such Birthsigns traits can be leveled at certain level of character and player who decide not chose starting trait at beginning can receive Birthsigns during special quest for an astrologer or fortune teller with certain requirements like character level and Skill levels as well there can be certain fee, since Birthsigns have leveled powers they can be useful trough all game not only at beginning.
Making starting choses can be done at race chose screen or later during chargen or be even optional in hardcoe mode if devs decide thats making starting choose is too hard for newcomers.