Fallout 3 was an awesome game, I'm sure a lot of you will agree. It's not my type to spit on a game because it doesn't look like the old classic, but let's compare it with what TF2 did to TFC fans.

First, both games took MAJOR elements out of the game (Where's my Vindicator minigun? WAAAAH) replacing them for nothing. No gauss weapons in FO3, no 'nades in TF2. Then they decided to revamp the whole gameplay, keeping some stuff here and there so the game wouldn't lose all of it's appeal to old schoolers.

Then, they sacrificed the humane feeling FO1 and FO2 had for a black and white, "Good guys are always nice and bad guys are always bad" kind of atmosphere. What happened to drug addicts greeting you and vault city inhabitants enslaving people? I can be a mean [censored] in FO3 if I want, but even if I'm a stealth killer, there will be some kind of aura around me which will tell people what kind of person I am, and what kind of stuff I do. Karma affects the game way too much.

Valve killed the immersive (alright, immersive is a strong word here) of Team Fortress with TF2. Back in TFC, they were just mean dudes fighting to death. Now they're charismatic, funny types. Bleh. Just give me my killing machine/vault dweller back. I don't want any "appealing" easter eggs (ZOMG, FAWKES/PYRO IS A GIRL!!!1!), I want Fallout 2's cheap humor, one of the elements which made it so great. I want to meet a farmer in power armor who only says "Oil Can", damnit!

I would write more of this [censored] complaint, but I must be boring you and/or going completely off the track. My points may seem trivial, but I'm sure a lot of Fo1/2 fans (And I'm not talking old schoolers only, I played fo2 for the first time last year) will agree. FO3, while being a great game, is just not the one. Hats off to Bethesda for making yet another great addition to my collection and for honoring black isle, but it simply just doesn't fit.

(Also, am I the only one who thinks VATS was only introduced in FO3 so it wouldn't totally lose it's old combat system?)

First of all, some of us "old school" Team Fortress fans weren't happy with the original Team Fortress Classic, and are quite happy with the current offering - It's an evolution of the game, rather than a port from an old engine to a new. And what you call "immersive" about TFC I call lacking character.

Second of all... shoot, this fight has been argued to death here already. Go join one of those threads.

Wait, are we arguing that gameplay shouldn't evolve or that Fallout 1 and 2, the most easteregg heavy games ever made, didn't have a high novelty aspect?

If you think FO3 is a great game, why did you feel the need to make this thread? There's been countless threads about this already.

I was never a hardcoe TFC player, but I think TF2 is a lot more fun. You might say its dumbed down, but at least its balanced.

Pyro?
...
is a...
...
g-girl??
that's hawt :hubbahubba:

Sure, it should evolve (e.g. better, more tactical turn-based combat, more balanced skills, etc.), not be mostly replaced by the gameplay style of an unrelated series.

A true evolution is from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr4Pf4g767A to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiCYiv-SRDM

Yes ... yes turn based and birdsview gamestyle are so outdated

I liked TF2 more then TFC...

Both yes and no. I think retro games are making a comeback. Look at Mega Man 9. It looks like a NES game and it's wonderful!

I think for Fallout, exploration and RPGing should be in third person 3d view. And then when it's combat, we get the old-style (but with 3d graphics) view with turn based strategic combat. That's the dream for me. Fallout was never meant to be an action game.

So, I'm voting this hybrid style for FO4. The strategic "birdsview" combat is such an essential part of Fallout. Also, if a so called RPG game comes with first person view, one can be sure it's going to be a hack and slash game.

I don't think I agree with this. There's nothing inherent in the perspective that makes one game more hack and slashy... There are plenty of isometric/topdown "rpgs" that are scarcely above the old arcade brawlers in terms of their hack-and-slashy nature. Diablo, to name offender numero uno, but I could also point to Dungeon Seige, the Icewind Dale spinoff line of Baldur's Gate, and tons of other games. Likewise first person shooters can be quite tactical and/or complex and involved.

People use the expedient "look i like the game fo3, so it will allow me to spite on it." Well you dont need to pay respects. If you dont like the game is just a fact. The only thing that piss me off are the people believing that some magical thing will happen after thousands of complaints like bethesda admit "OK OK you win we will remake the game taking this gamers as advisors".

I'm probably older than 90% of you whippersnappers, and I personally feel that the only kind of turn based games I ever want to play again are the Civ/Alpha Centauri type ones.

I really love the FPS style of FO3 and to me, V.A.T.S. fills the "tactical" (more like, "oh bleep!") role very well.

And really, it's just an immersion level thing - I think it was the right choice not just from a "marketing perspective", but because it really does make me feel like I'm there in the game world. Hell it's not like I'm a big FPS junkie; I've never played Team Fortress or Half Life or Unreal or Quake or practically any of these games (I do have a fondness for NOLF and Splinter Cell however... but mostly because of single player plot writing).

I do admit to one thing however... I have been dropping not so subtle hints to my wife that she should buy me Left 4 Dead for christmas - a purchase that I think has been spurred mostly because of FO3 and the fun I've been having running around blasting apart super mutants.

Wow... looking at both, but more at the "new" (looks like made for SNES) we see why fo3 is so popular.

It does seem to be the case that once a game is out the door it's finished as far as Bethesda is concerned.
Did Oblivion get any of the major bugs resolved or was it simply a case of pointing people to fan made projects or solutions?
Yes that was a rhetorical question.
I would love to be proven wrong and Beth will get all over the hassles that are diminishing many peoples enjoyment of Fallout 3, I just won't be holding my breath on this one.

Megamen is a almost a timeless http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoIR4dFwfwk But this is not the point. [though even here they did not suddenly started making out of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wv0NAMJ1kQ suddenly a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p0Yap5iG6o ]

The point is that a turn based mechanic could today just be as easily slaped on to a new engine like the game embryo engine of Oblivion or Far Cry 2, Doom 3 etc. as the "First Person Mechanics" which makes it a "design" and not technology in the first place as technologies can be antiquated but a design is timeless! > da vincis pictures and unique style are still after 400 years one of the most known concepts in art regardless of cubism, realism or any of the 20 centurie art designs. Turn based mechanics are not "retro" they are just not the most common mechanic at the moment and it could be easily the other way around if that would be the easier to produce and market thing. Fact is that developing a game for turn based mechanics is defenitely HARDER compared to a shooter like mechanic present in either CoD, Gears of War or in this case Fallout 3 (which doesnt mean that only cause it needs a bit more brain power design wise to make it work it would be less fun! its just is meant for a different target audience you dont search in a shooter what you search in a turn based game and vise versa)


I never said Silent Storm is the pinacle of visual graphics. It was just to make a point. That Turn Based mechanics are just like First Person a timeless concept that could be without any issues ported to a engine that makes your PC sweat. Compare Fallout 3 to a game that might be released in the year 2015 and we will see what the comments will be then. Does it mean first person mechanics will be "outclassed" then only cause eventualy the next Gears of War 223455th game will look 10 000 times better compared to Fallout 3? I think the answer is no. First person has its place just as Turn Based or real time for itself in that respect.

you know your kidz (for the case youre not older then me) might lough at you and me one day for talking about Fallout 3 cause of 'they liked thaaaat! looks like made for the X-Box 470! (as they own already the newest we-microsoft-control-your-mind-box 1360) [yes this is just a joke. I like x-box. Really I do]

Sometimes it's funny, other times I just want to make them Please continue, my good sir.. And I do.

You may like turn based combat, this is a matter of taste, but in terms of programming, its much more easier to program turn based combat. Let me explain it:

On an dynamic enviroment, like on an fps, you have several entities, AI enemies, each one thinking on their own ai, and at the same time, there is the firing output from both they and the player. All is done in parallel programming, which need to be well developed to keep sincronism.

On turn based its rather simple. When player found one or more hostile, a round cicle is definited, and the player take some action. The Ai entities are stopped, waiting to be played on their turns. This approach requires much less Computing power, as the player take the decisions on and click and point, and after he choose his actions, the turn is passed to cpu to calculate AI action.

That's akin to saying any game that comes with an isometric view is automatically about building an army and conquering your enemy, first person is simply a perspective, it has nothing to do with whether the game is "hack and slash" or not, real life is first person too, yet there's lots to do besides hacking and slashing.

But as much as I like Fallout 3, there are a number of ways Bethesda could have done better with it, it's not about perspective or real time combat, though, I'm perfectly fine with those as they are, though I'd have played this game if it used an isometric view point instead, the things that bother me are things like the limited variety in weapons, or the way the karma system works (How exactly would people realize I'm a thief if I never got caught?), things like that, Bethesda did a good job with Fallout 3, this I must say, but there are ways it could have been made to appeal to me more.

I have never played TFC, but I love TF2.

SPY is the best when combined to male Crysis voice "Cloak Engaged"

I also use "Cloak Engaged" with my FO3 Stealthboys