I don't know about you, but in Oblivion, weapon reaches were pointless. A silver dagger had the same reach as an Akaviri dai katana. What the hell? Hopefully Skyrim has a more improved one.

I'm pretty sure you had stand closer to jab someone with a dagger than if you were to swing a longsword. If you stand at the same distance from your target, so that your longsword barely touches your target when you swing it, and then you switch to your dagger, you wont end up hitting your target with the dagger. But I could be wrong. Never really paid that much attention to the mechanics of the different weapons. Usually just used a longsword anyway as they did the most damage. :thumbsup:

100% sure there are different weapon ranges in Oblivion. Test it out specifically on your summoned skeleton with a claymore and a dagger.

I used the dummy in Cloud Temple, I used the dai-katana on the farthest spot I could use it while hitting the dummy, then switched to a dagger. It still hits.

I always had to move closer with a dagger to hit an enemy, so meh.
Especially against an ogre it's a problem.

I can't test it anymore because my OB disc is scratched and won't run. Living off Morrowind now (good stuff).

I stand corrected. I just tested this as well.

Well that is strange and quite illogical. I really do hope they change this.

I don't get that thing with the dummy, but weapons do definitely have different reaches. Look it up on UESP.

Maybe testing on a dummy doesn't give the same results.

That's probably the easiest way to test, since a regular monster/NPC moves.

I did a test with a longsword and then a dagger. I loaded a save and didn't move, then summoned a skeleton (which didn't move) and hit it with the longsword. I reloaded so I would be in same spot and summoned a skeleton and missed with the dagger. I took a small step forward and still missed. I stepped forward again and missed again. So ya there is a difference in weapon reaches.

I had a feeling I was right with my initial post. There is probably a difference between enemies and dummies, but it seems strange that the game would make a distinction when it comes to weapon reaches against enemies and dummies.

Thanks for testing this with a real enemy! :thumbsup:

It's traditional for BGS games to have sloppy stats, and reach is just one of the issues. There is a reach difference in oblivion (an improvement from morrowind), but the long weapons are still severely off, compared to reality and the game meshes. Mods do a good job of fixing most of the problems, but reach is somewhat limited by the game engine (combat looks odd with long weapons set to correct values).

What bothered me most was the fact that you could see your entire weapon when you swing even if you were an inch away from your enemy.

Yes, that was quite annoying, and destroyed any realism you were supposed to feel.

In Skyrim however, they say that when you slash your weapon into someone, it will actually have a physics-effect.

Watch the Interviews and Gameplay trailer

I see you're taking part in the popular trend of pointing out COMPLETELY MADE-UP problems with Oblivion.

Oh, lol. More Oblivion bashing, eh? :rolleyes:

This is an issue with ALL Elder Scrolls games. This guy just apparently doesn't play much more then Oblivion often. Which means he is in fact a fan of Oblivion. Stop complaining.


But yeah, I agree. There has always been an issue with this. While they did actually have a difference, it just didn't matter with the way the games have run. To be honest, I don't actually see much of a workaround. But I pray Bethesda proove me wrong!

i hated when using a dagger, some NPC with a two handed sword comes along with a burden enchantment. If it weren't for spells he would have kicked my ass

No, it's not. Oblivion has completely different ranges for daggers and daikatanas. The issue is more that you swing a dagger around like it's a sword rather than making stabbing motions, but the range is undeniably different. Don't do your little eye-rolling emotes at me. People do bash Oblivion and this one of MANY topics that I've seen accuse Oblivion of having problems that it did not have. I stand up for a game I love. You'd do the same for Morrowind if the roles were reversed, so don't be rude.

Well... as noted already, weapons do have different reaches. As also noted though, the reaches aren't necessarily terribly accurate.

The basic problem is that reach is defined separate from the physical appearance of the weapon. For instance, claymores in Oblivion have a reach of 1.3 units. It doesn't matter what it is - there's a little box for "reach" and in that box is entered "1.30" So that's the reach every claymore has. Similarly, longswords have a reach of 1.0. Shortswords have a reach of 0.8. And so on. Each one is defined beforehand, and the way that the game figures a hit is to measure the distance between actors and check if that's greater than or less than the assigned reach of the weapon. It doesn't matter in the least if the mesh of the weapon actually intersects with the mesh of the opponent - all that matters is how the numbers match up.

I'm heartened by Beth's claim that Skyrim is going to have physics applied to weapons. That at least makes it possible that a hit will be determined by whether or not the meshes collide rather than whether or not the distance between actors is less than the defined reach of the weapon. I would tend to think that hits still won't be registered by collision, simply because that requires very precise physics applied to pretty much everything in the game (plus the deceptively complicated issue of what to do with that collision - is the blade deflected? the armor cut? the opponent staggered?), but it seems they're at least heading in that direction, so that's something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g&NR=1

Anyhoo.

The problem I see is that we can get close to an opponent before the extra reach matters (and vice versa). Also, the ranges just aren't diverse enough. It needs work. The latter is simple to fix, but I really don't know how the first issue could possibly be seen to. :shrug:

That's where the issue lies.

Perhaps a new fighting system could fix this, ala Assassin's Creed? The "stepping forward" system seems to help keep your distance. But would that then detract from the feel of the games?

:rolleyes:

I'm sorry that you can't handle other people having an opinion that is different from yours.

I see you're taking things out of context to make oblivion the victim.

If you had actually read why he thought that you'd understand. Weapon reaches when tested on world objects are the same(AKA the Dummy), but not for actual mobs.

What opinion? You're just crying because someone is apprently bashing Oblivion when they're obviously not... again.

^ I have no interest in talking to you anymore. If you're going to wave my posts off as "crying" then you have no respect for me and so there's no sense in trying to have a conversation.
Edit: Which you just further prove below by completely ignoring half of my post.


If he actually intended for this topic to be all about the dummy, then this is the silliest and most irrelevant topic on the Skyrim General Discussion forum yet. But I think we both know this topic wasn't about the dummy, but about weapon ranges when actually fighting things. I'd say I was taking things in context.

I'm not making Oblivion the victim, other people are though. It's like someone's getting punched in the face, I come by and say "you're punching this guy in the face," and everyone tells me I'm whining or taking things out of context to make that guy the victim. People come on this forum all the time and request things for Skyrim that Oblivion "didn't have" or suggest Skyrim fix something wrong that Oblivion did which Oblivion actually didn't do wrong. Am I just supposed to agree or ignore that?

Well... Yes, of course.

why would you NOT want Skyrim to have more than Oblivion, Morrowind, Redguard, Battlespire, Daggerfall and Arena etc.? :confused: