GTA Style Leveled Crime System

Post » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:14 am

Maybe not exactly like GTA, but if you have a huge bounty and somebody sees you on the street, they should run to tell the guards, and the guards should actively look for you.

Perhaps if you have a bounty of over 10,000 gold they'd send rangers to actually track you down.


Let me go ahead and agree with you defenitely NOT exactly like GTA. That was more of just a broad example (albeit poor one) of a 'tiered' crime system. If you read through this entire thread, some people have posted incredible ideas....I will edit the op later to include some of these.

Great ideas though people. I think the general consensus is that people would like to see an improved crime system, regardless of what that may be. Im sure we fans werent the only people having those thoughts :wink_smile:
User avatar
His Bella
 
Posts: 3428
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:57 am

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:00 pm

I'm a little late to the party, but I think this is a great idea. I should have to deal with the guards because I picked up a crumpled piece of tossed out paper in someone's house by accident. :banghead:
User avatar
Unstoppable Judge
 
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:22 pm

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:14 pm

I like the sending guards out of towns to hunt you down idea, but like many posts before me, i think you should not be recognized in every town once u commit some crime.
I think the order should be longer and more lenient, so the more bad things you do, the harder it is to reconcile and become a "good" character, but also gives you benefits too.
25g bounty : Guards try to fine you and if you have a speech craft skill high enough, or if they are your friend, you can avoid the bounty.
this should be from pickpocketing, stealing, or trespassing.
50g bounty: Guards fine you and report you, and if you don't comply they will put you in jail. If the guards like you enough, you are able to bribe/talk them out of reporting you.
250g bounty: Guards immediately come up to you and force you to go to prison. No more bribing/convincing. Also, if you have a house/settlement in the town, they will barge in and apprehend you if you are inside.
500g bounty: Guards will be on full alert for you in not only one settlement, but in neighboring settlements as well. Guards will attack you on sight until you yield. Guards will also search your house and take some items, which then only way to retrieve is to steal it back from prison or pay fines.
750g bounty: Guards will be dispatched in groups of 4-6 and travel in main roads, and will attack you on sight unless you yield.
1000g bounty: Guards will be dispatched in groups of 6-10 and are more likely to find you, they will attack on sight unless you yield. They will also have a possibility of finding you in some deserted camp in the mountains/caves if you sleep/rest in it.
5000g bounty: Fighter's guild or Mage's guild or other guilds will send members to personally hunt you down in groups of 4.
7500g bounty: Fighter's guild AND Mage's guild and all other guilds will send members who are highly equipped to attack you. You can join some secret outlaw organization to help protect yourself.
10000g bounty: You are declared a criminal to the world of Skyrim and everyone will attack you on sight. Your houses are completely ransacked, and all your possessions in towns are all apprehended. You have a choice of starting a mercenary/pirate band and take over settlements.
User avatar
Mrs shelly Sugarplum
 
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:16 am

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:14 pm

I think lesser crimes that result in a fine should have time limit. I don't like the "Pay the fine on the spot with the money you have on you or go to jail", that seems ridiculous.

Since in reality (especially in a World like this), it's unlikely people would have a huge bag of gold on them. It also discounts what I beleive to be the main point of fines -- to make money.
Governments love slapping fines on things to make a little bit of extra cash. You'd think war-torn Skyrim governments would definitely need a bit of money.

So, isntead of "Pay fine now or go jail". There should be a "Pay the fine within the next 5 days. If you fail to pay the fine in whole within the next 5 days, the amount will double". Essentially, after a few doublings you will owe a lot of money, and THEN jailtime would be issued and your bounty increased.

Also, I don't believe the guards should attack you for owing money in almost any case unless you have been violent.



Perhaps for burglery because that is (at least in my country) considered an aggressive crime.
User avatar
Toby Green
 
Posts: 3365
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:27 pm

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:39 pm

Are they dead? I know they're old, but I figure they could survive just as easily as the other dunmer groups might. It'd be a shame if they did, they are the Psijic Order to the Dark Brotherhood's Guild of Mages. A strict group that follows their teachings to the word, and then the dissenting organization.

The Dark Brotherhood is the more likely organization, considering that they are the ones that operate across the whole of Tamriel, whereas the Morag Tong were mostly confined to Morrowind, where they were legal. Also, they would've lost quite a lot of infrastructure. Even if they survived and were operating among the Dunmer in Skyrim the Dark Brotherhood would be the organization that's dominant.
User avatar
Sami Blackburn
 
Posts: 3306
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:56 am

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:48 pm

I wouldnt mind the idea of a level based crime system such as GTA, where each tier gives worse consequences.

KEEP IN MIND THESE ARE ONLY EXAMPLES. THESE BOUNTY LEVELS ARE NOT NECESSARILY REPRESENTING ACTUAL NUMBERS. THEY ONLY REPRESENT AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THIS IDEA COULD WORK.

25 Gold Bounty - Guards will attempt to apprehend you, giving you a fine and confiscating your stolen property. Having inssuficient funds to cover to fine results in jail time.

50 Gold Bounty - Guards will attempt to send you straight to jail, and perhaps a fine as well.

100 Gold Bounty - Guards will ALWAYS know you are a criminal. There is no leaving town and returning undetected. You are identified on site as a lawbreaker.

250 Gold Bounty - Guards are occasionally sent in packs to hunt you down. Could include one heavily armored guard/constable to serve your warrant. These guards will locate and follow you outside a cities limits, until you are apprehended or subsequently one of you is dead.

500 Gold Bounty - Death Warrant is issued. Jail is no longer an option. Either pay your bounty/bribe and official, or spend the rest of your life on the run.

I mean those are just a few ideas and I think it could make being a criminal much more exciting.....what do yall think? Feel free to add suggestions!



I like the idea this should be good but i didn't really have a problem with it all.
User avatar
MARLON JOHNSON
 
Posts: 3377
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 7:12 pm

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:19 pm

I like the sending guards out of towns to hunt you down idea, but like many posts before me, i think you should not be recognized in every town once u commit some crime.
I think the order should be longer and more lenient, so the more bad things you do, the harder it is to reconcile and become a "good" character, but also gives you benefits too.
25g bounty : Guards try to fine you and if you have a speech craft skill high enough, or if they are your friend, you can avoid the bounty.
this should be from pickpocketing, stealing, or trespassing.
50g bounty: Guards fine you and report you, and if you don't comply they will put you in jail. If the guards like you enough, you are able to bribe/talk them out of reporting you.
250g bounty: Guards immediately come up to you and force you to go to prison. No more bribing/convincing. Also, if you have a house/settlement in the town, they will barge in and apprehend you if you are inside.
500g bounty: Guards will be on full alert for you in not only one settlement, but in neighboring settlements as well. Guards will attack you on sight until you yield. Guards will also search your house and take some items, which then only way to retrieve is to steal it back from prison or pay fines.
750g bounty: Guards will be dispatched in groups of 4-6 and travel in main roads, and will attack you on sight unless you yield.
1000g bounty: Guards will be dispatched in groups of 6-10 and are more likely to find you, they will attack on sight unless you yield. They will also have a possibility of finding you in some deserted camp in the mountains/caves if you sleep/rest in it.
5000g bounty: Fighter's guild or Mage's guild or other guilds will send members to personally hunt you down in groups of 4.
7500g bounty: Fighter's guild AND Mage's guild and all other guilds will send members who are highly equipped to attack you. You can join some secret outlaw organization to help protect yourself.
10000g bounty: You are declared a criminal to the world of Skyrim and everyone will attack you on sight. Your houses are completely ransacked, and all your possessions in towns are all apprehended. You have a choice of starting a mercenary/pirate band and take over settlements.


I like this but the last one it seems like the only way to get out of this is to die and if you take over all the settlements everyone will be shady and there will be no point to a crime system at all.
User avatar
Juanita Hernandez
 
Posts: 3269
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:36 am

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:52 pm

I like the idea for the most part, but there's one problem. Let's say you rack up a high bounty in one city, then go to a different city. Why should any of the guards in that city be able to recognize you immediately? Did they get a fax with your face and crime level?

Some people will disagree, but I think there should be a different bounty level for each city or region.


I think there should be too, but to fix the problem of just making bounties in the cities, make Skyrim regional. So every city governs a reigon
User avatar
Brian Newman
 
Posts: 3466
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:36 pm

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:25 pm

I like the idea for the most part, but there's one problem. Let's say you rack up a high bounty in one city, then go to a different city. Why should any of the guards in that city be able to recognize you immediately? Did they get a fax with your face and crime level?

Some people will disagree, but I think there should be a different bounty level for each city or region.

I would agree with that up to a point. There should be a span of time before a bounty in one area leads to anyone recognizing the PC in another area, but they should eventually. Certainly Tamriel doesn't have faxes, but it does have communication, so the communication that you're wanted in one area should travel to another area at the pace dictated by the available technology. I don't think it should be closed off entirely, since that makes no more sense than that it be instantaneous.

To the OP - I like the idea of steadily increasing consequences for increasing bounties. I'm not sold on some of your specific examples of the possible consequences, but that's beside the point. The basic idea is, in my opinion, sound.
User avatar
Richard
 
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:50 pm

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:56 pm

Every civilized city/country like to pose itself as humane and lawful organization
So even criminals who have sentenced death penalty are being executed not on the streets. but in public
Thats why it is only logical that guards will try to get criminal alive.
So it would be only logical if guards time after time would try to cast paralyze spell and put wrist irons on you.
(this approach could be used also by player to capture other characters- bandits or other criminals for bounty)
User avatar
roxxii lenaghan
 
Posts: 3388
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:53 am

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:24 pm

At 100 gp, aren't guards trying to kill us?
User avatar
stevie critchley
 
Posts: 3404
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:36 pm

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:49 pm

I like the idea for the most part, but there's one problem. Let's say you rack up a high bounty in one city, then go to a different city. Why should any of the guards in that city be able to recognize you immediately? Did they get a fax with your face and crime level?

Some people will disagree, but I think there should be a different bounty level for each city or region.

i agree, kinda like how FO3 did it, you upset one town but it doesn't effect the other towns, i also like the OP's ideas along with this edit
User avatar
Latisha Fry
 
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:42 am

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:08 pm

Not to be argumentative, but I disagree. The crime system in OB and MW were dull and meaningless. The bounty system was horrible, and no matter what you did or how much you stole, you never felt like it had any affect on the game whatsoever.....Short from guards chasing you.

As a theif/evil/assasin character, Id like to see more consequences for these actions.

agreed, the old crime system is flawed and broken
User avatar
Claire
 
Posts: 3329
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:01 pm

Post » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:01 am

... yeah, and maybe they can implement a court system with lawyers and stuff where you go to trial and are sentenced to life in prison, then you just stay jailed... or better yet, sentence you to death, stage your own execution, then you have to start all over again...

thats a bit much
User avatar
Angela
 
Posts: 3492
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:33 am

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:07 pm

I like the idea of a crime system, but id prefer it to be more like assassins creed 2/brotherhood's where you can gain a massive notoriety but there are ways to lower it, I think this would be a brilliant way to handle it in skyrim, And they've already said they are paying attention to the reactions of something plays all ways do, "Going into a tavern and setting of your most powerfull spell" Ect..
User avatar
Nims
 
Posts: 3352
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:29 pm

Post » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:43 pm

A combination Fable and Morrowind style crime system could be good. Fable has it that you can have different bounties in different regions. Morrowind has the death sentence. Here's how it could work.

Every town and the surrounding extent of the Hold has a managed bounty. If holds share certain allegiances with whatever plot elements the story says, they could possibly share bounties (so it'd be a bounty with a faction as opposed to every town). Crimes committed in this region are determined in the same way as which jail you go to. Stolen items are only confiscated if they are from the region you are being arrested in.

Crime levels:
0-500: Petty theft, guards will not notice, nor will they instantly recognize you if you talk to them. You can confess your crimes to a guard to pay off the fine.
500-1000: Moderate crime, guards won't take notice to the crime but will arrest you if spoken to. NPCs may take notice of your crimes through dialog.
1000-2000: Wanted, guards will track you down when they see you and attempt to arrest you. You can pay your fines, go to jail, etc.
2000-5000: Very Wanted, guards will track you down, and your ability to pay your fines is now gone (This is Skyrim we're talking about, they don't care about your silly money)
5000+: Death Warrant: Guards will kill you on sight.

Bounty Deprecation:
Over time, your bounty can decrease as people stop caring. For every 20 seconds you are wanted, your bounty will go down by 1 gold. That means if you have a bounty of 500, it will take 10000 seconds, or nearly 2.8 hours to go away. (This formula isn't a suggestion, just a speculation. You could probably create a more complex formula to have varrying levels of deprecation.)
Essentially, it shouldn't take that long to forget about a stolen loaf of bread. If you steal a ton of money, then people might remember you longer. If you have a death warrant, your bounty will never go away without paying the right people.

Stolen Item Deprecation:
Stolen items shouldn't remain stolen forever. Depending on how valuable the item is, people may forget about it. For instance, the time it takes for an item to stop being hot is 20 times the item value, in seconds. Items worth more than 1000 gold will never be forgotten unless taken to a fence, and the heat can be removed for a fee. Items worth less than 50g can be sold to traders if they are not the original owner of the item. They will not buy items if guards are actively searching for you.

Reputation:
If a guard is friends with you, they may be willing to look the other way when it comes to crimes. In Oblivion, this was judged with disposition, where having a disposition of 90 made you just fine, and the guard would even take care of your bounty for you. I think it should be a system of Disposition weighed against responsibility, where a guard can be conflicted between helping the player and doing their duty. Sometimes authorities must even arrest their friends. But this system can be made a bit more dynamic as well. I'm not willing to crunch the numbers, so I'll just scale them in terms of success. If you are famous enough, such as being leader of a guild or a protagonist who has finished the main quest, the disposition of all NPC's, including guards, would be raised a bit in your favor (unless it's a bad guild). Guards should feel wrong if they arrest the champion of Cyrodiil, for instance. A select few guards can spawn with high enough responsibilities that they put their duty before all else.
Disposition Low, Responsibility Low: Guard is not your friend, but they are irresponsible. They will confront you, but accept bribes on the spot to let you go free. They will not remove your bounty.
Disposition Low, Responsibility Moderate/High: Guard is not friends with you and you are wanted. Regardless of responsibility, they will confront you.
Disposition High, Responsibility Low: Guard is your friend, but not very responsible. They will confront you as all guards do, but let you go and remove your bounty for you.
Disposition High, Responsibility Moderate: Guard is your friend, and moderately responsible. However, because you are their friend, they cannot bring themselves to arrest you. They will not go out of their way to remove your bounty.
Disposition High, Responsibility High: Guard is your friend/you are famous. However, they are very responsible and their duty is important to them, so they arrest you.

That's the basics of how it could work. I do think that the bounty system could use a bit of work, to add a deeper level of gameplay to lawless characters. This affects lawful characters very little though. When I play, I usually play as a thief. If there isn't any sort of increased dynamic system, I don't think I'd mind very much, but it'd be nice to have regardless. I suppose if there's this sort of bounty system, there should be a counter-system for other characters, the ones that piss off the evil organizations as opposed to the lawful ones.

I like this idea alot and combined with a few others from the OP and some later post.
User avatar
Lily Evans
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:10 am

Previous

Return to V - Skyrim