(I searched, but came up empty so let me know if I overlooked a thread with same discussion)

Earlier today I was playing Fallout: New Vegas, and just got done mowing through stuff in Vault 19. It was dark, and like most people I used my Pip-Boy light, but I still barely had any light. Then I remembered that I had a Cateye aid to see in the dark, and when taken my screen turns blue, and I carry on and exit Vault 19. All through that I was mostly in 1st person view, I left and once I was outside of Vault 19, I switched to 3rd person view (like I do every time I explore while not in heavy fighting or inside buildings) and had a random spur of the moment I have never thought of before. :tongue:

I have played Fallout 3, Oblivion, and Morrowind when using a skill/item that changes your screen or "lights" something (like Detect Life in Oblivion), but I never thought how a little non-immersive it is while in 1st person, you are seeing everything through your character's eyes and once in 3rd person, you yourself is seeing what is around your guy but how you can still get the magic/item effect "in your head". Now I know people want to see your body and all while in first person to create immersion, but that's a different issue, and let me continue by explaining what I mean... :user:

Remember in Oblivion when you use Nighteye, the screen turns blue and when you use Detect Life, any life has a purple fog around it? Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas has a similar Nighteye effect and Morrowind's Nighteye gave more of a "white glow" lighting. But all those effects are in your character's head, allowing him/her and you to find something or find your away around places. But how would your guy have that effect still while in 3rd person? Now I am not just talking about Magic effects, people wanted blurriness in Skyrim from injuries, drunkenness, ect. Basically any effect you can think of IRL that would be only seen through your eyes and what effect it has on them or your head. Also, Morrowind's Blind skill was brutal, making the screen barely black to pitch black, but what if the same can happen in Skyrim, but only in 1st person view and forcing you to fight temporarily in 3rd person? Same with every other magic/item/mental effect?

Now, we all know that Todd Howard said Skyrim would be more immersive than other TES games (I know I have seen this before and remember it, I cannot find the source so any help is appreciated :hugs:) so I have something in mind to give it a little more detail in immersion, BUT is it too "in the way" of gameplay or just right when it comes to immersion and roleplaying?

Thanks for reading! :tops:

How does your character see from a 3rd person perspective? Not very immersive now is it...

That was the point of my post...

You suggest that effects should only be visible in 1st person, because in 3rd you aren't viewing with yout "eyes". The whole argument makes little sense when you come to think that viewing in 3rd person makes no sense.

Besides, you can argue that the effects don't effect your eyes, just your perception. So even though you aren't "viewing with your eyes" in 3rd person, your whole perception is ruined. If im drunk I might have a hard time seeing, but its not just sight that is impaired, my whole perception of reality is skewed. If im blinded then my character can't see, so they should have not have anything visibile in 3rd person because their visual perception is ruined. The detect life effect isn't viewed, its "sensed" and that is manifested visually.

The "not viewing it from your eyes" makes no sense unless your character has a camera floating around them, otherwise you can argue against it using the perception arguement.
3rd person view in itself doesn't make sense. If you want immersion it only makes sense to remove it (which i am not suggesting)

Sorry, I never thought of that. I guess this makes it a pointless topic. Dang, I thought I was onto something.

Any mod can lock this...

And contained here is the entire key to my answer, this part in particular: "but what if the same can happen in Skyrim, but only in 1st person view and forcing you to fight temporarily in 3rd person?" The answer: "teh immershunz" be damned. Or more precisely, in this case immersion is damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

If you can get around such effects by switching to third person, then they're more or less a waste of development time in the first place not to mention breaking immersion by nullifiying an in-game effect by a means that isn't really "in-game." Of course you're correct to an extent, that in third person you're not seeing through the character's eyes unless we'd like to try and explain how they've been removed from the character's head and begun to levitate above and behind them.

So all we've really got here is a good cautionary tale about the hazards of making a religion out of "worshipping immersion."

And for gameplay purposes, I think they should continue to have any visual effects in both first-person and third-person view.

If anything, I'd say having effects like nighteye NOT work in third person would be less "immersive", because third person does not mean your character's perspective actually shifts to a place outside of his head, nor do I think of it as meaning that you're seeing the game from the perspective of someone who always constantly follows behind your character and controls him like a puppet. You're character is still "you", it's just that you shift to viewing the world you explore from a different perspective. Removing screen effects in third person would serve only to remind you that you're not viewing the world from your character's perspective, increasing the feeling that you and your character are seperate, thus making it LESS "immersive" since you feel like an outside observer rather than someone actually involved in the things happening on screen. And in any case, it would be bad for gameplay as it would render any positive effects that affect your vision worthless in third person, as well s make it easy to avoid negative ones by switching into third person, which is kind of unfair. The choice between third person and first person should be only a matter of preference, you should not sometimes be better served by choosing one or the other because certain effects don't apply in third person.

Silly.

Having game effects only work in one view inherently penalizes people who want to use one of those views. It's bad gameplay design.

Hey, I was in Vault 19 today as well . Actually didn't find it all that dark though, I must have the gamma too high.

But I don't think its a good idea. As its been stated, it's not fair for those that use 3rd person.