Just wondering if you think Jyggalag will show up and what role he'll play in the game? Also wondering if anyone thinks Sheogorath will mention the events of Shiver Isles at all?

Wasnt really thinking about this but now that you mention it.
Maybe some references will be pointed via deadric quest. But having a role in skyrim no.

I doubt we'll see him. It would be interesting to see Sheogorath's position taken over by the CoC. After all much of Sheogoraths power comes from the isles...
More likely that Jyggalag took control of the isles at some point and that Sheogorath is gone.

But neither are likely to be of any significance.

i hope jyggalag gets a shrine and i think after 200 years went by sheogoraths powers would have resurfaced and the former champion of cyrodill would eventually change to something similar to sheogorath as he was seen in the isles maybe a little younger but likely similar

I imagine he'll have a shrine, or at least a quest of some kind. The events of Shivering Isles might be part of a book or something. I mean, I'm sure daedric scholars will understand what it means for Jyggy and Sheogorath to be separate entities.

Pretty Sure Ol Jyggy is kicking Deadric prince ass and Chewing Bubblegum, and he's all out of Deadric prince ass.

Very doubtful. Most likely, at this point in time, the CoC will have fully become Sheogorath, same as the other mortals who became Sheogorath before him, which will re-instate the curse on Jyggalag. No real reason to think the cycle has been broken.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sheogorath returned same as always with little-to-no mention of Jyggalag.

I thought the CoC taking on the role of Sheogorath and defeating Jyggalag was a first time occurance, and that by doing so he had seperated Jyggalag from Sheogorath ending the curse.

There is a reason to think the curse has been broken though. Previously, Jyggalag always took the throne before returning to Sheogorath, the rebel became the King. In SI, the CoC, as Sheogorath and thus as the King, stopped the rebel Jyggalag from taking the Throne.

It wasn't a first time occurrence. Arden Sul is an example of a mortal who stopped the Greymarch and became Sheogorath. That's the reason why the Heretics say Sheogorath is just a man. We kind of put the curse on pause, so that Jyggalag could be free to roam for a while without having to take his realm back and without being Sheogorath. Most likely only a temporary thing. I can't imagine the curse of 15 Daedric Princes could be broken so easily, nor do I see them not just re-cursing Jyggalag. Jyggalag is also kind of anomaly, so he can't really be free to roam for too long without causing some very serious damage. Plus, no Sheo means no madness, and I can't imagine a world without ANY madness.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/arden-sul is always relevant in topics like these.

This is opening a box of worms. There are plenty of debates wether or not the cycle was permanently broken or not. Some believe the CoC never even became the real Sheo. I for one don't get mixed in with all the conspiracies involving the story of SI, so either way is fine with me. ((As long as Sheo is around in some form or another))

Did Arden-Sul really defeat Jyggalag? That is certainly what Lady N extrapolated from Cylarne's age, but it is not necessarily so.

Well Jyggy seems to think that the cycle is permanently broken and that the CoC might have transcended to godhood. Sure he's a deadric prince, but he had no reason to say otherwise, not that he needs one.

Yes, he did say that, and it might be that he believes what he's telling the CoC is true, but as Velorien stated before, whats stopping the other Princes from just cursing him again? Unless he is somehow able to gain the alliances of other Princes, he stands no chance.

I'm confused, does that mean that the cycle is going to continue and that CoC will become Jygg and Sheo, or that the other princes going to re-curse him? The article seems to say that Jygg and Sheo were parts of the same whole which contradicts the idea that the Princes cursed him to become his antithesis. And if Sheo and Jygg become one entity again at what point does Jygg dissipate and how?

There's nothing that says the cycle has to continue, but there's also nothing that indicates that it won't. I lean in favor of it starting over, both because, as I said, no Sheo means no madness, and a world without madness is incredibly dull, and because Jyggalag is incredibly powerful and was cursed for a reason. The Daedric Princes wouldn't just let him roam free forever. Logically, they'd curse him again.

And how does it contradict anything? The curse was to make Jyggalag become his antithesis, which means making Jyggalag and Sheogorath the same being.

Normally, Jyggalag became Sheogorath after reclaiming the throne, but as you know, that didn't happen. So, if we're to believe the cycle will start again, WHEN will that happen? I don't know. After a certain period of time, maybe until the other Princes notice. The 200 years between Oblivion and Skyrim seems like enough time.

Certainly nothing is written in stone on this, and I could definitely be proven wrong, but that's how it seems to me.

On the whole I loved that article. I never put two and two together with Arden-Sul and the implication that he was a previous attempt to become Sheogorath, but if he then became Sheogorath does that mean whatever Jyggalag/Sheogorath is then possessed him?

I don't think possessed is really the right word for it. He mantled Sheogorath similar to how the CoC did and became the symbol of the Shivering Isles, i.e. Sheogorath. He accepted the role, and in time, the role accepted him.

Does that make Jyggalag a mantle that can be assumed as well, and are could the other Princes then have their roles assumed in a similar fashion? Not attempting to argue, I'm generally curious.

um... NO mortals have become sheogorath before.

that is what the focus of the shivering isles expansion was for... it was the END of the cycle of order/madness.

i mean, if the cycle "ended" countless times before, and mortals became sheogorath before, im sure it would've been mentioned, and i dont even think that would warrant an expansion pack to focus on something like that if there was nothing special about what happened.

where are people getting these crazy "facts" of theirs?

someone in this topic already thinks sheogorath being reborn in the champion will make him look younger... thats stupid, since a daedric prince can look however they want, if sheogorath WAS reborn through the champion, he could actually make himself look thousands of years old if he wanted, he wouldnt just automatically be young, he'd appear however he wanted!

now you, saying other mortals have become sheogorath before and jyggalag supposedly seperating from sheogorath during other grey marches... complete BS, sorry to say.

again, there would be no point of the expansion if there were previous champions and victories over jyggalag... NO point at all.

that was the first time ever that sheogorath called in a champion im sure, and the first time a mortal took up the mantle of a daedric prince, as well as the first time ever jygglag was seperated from sheogorath and was free to traverse oblivion once again.

anyway, back on topic... im sure we'll see some references to oblivion and the shivering isles events, i mean... bethesda loves their easter eggs, and references to past games, so we'll either see books, or NPCs will make references in discussions.

maybe we'll find storytellers who tell the stories to children?

that'd be pretty cool, since children are in the game now, they should have elders telling the kids stories from what happened during the oblivion crisis, afterall... elves can live a very long time, 200 years would be nothing to them.

I don't know honestly. I've always been under the impression that only Lorkhan can be mantled (Sheogorath being a kind of extension of Lorkhan, since he's the "Sithis-shaped hole of the world" and Lorkhan being the first son of Sithis AKA Padomay) but others say that any god can be mantled, so I'm not really sure. That's a good question to ask in the Lore forum.


What do you have to back that up? Read up on the beliefs of the Heretics in conjecture with the stories of Arden Sul, then compare to the dichotomy of Lorkhan/Alduin, THEN come back and tell me a mortal has never become Sheogorath.

You didn't offer any evidence other than "there would be no point to this expansion," which is just not true. It gave lore to Jyggalag, it had a hugely interesting story, and it allowed the player to become a Daedric Prince and to go through a type of mantling process.

There's plenty of in-game content to back-up Arden Sul becoming Sheogorath.

There is no indication however that Arden-sul defeated Jyggalag. There is no indication that he did anything akin to what the CoC did upon the steps of the mad god's palace. Truth of the matter is, there is nothing to indicate that your stipulation that the cycle isn't broken is the slightest bit correct.

I don't want to step into any lorebattle since I'm not that well versed, but I do think seeing Jyggalag would be pretty cool.