10mm SMG vs Assault Carbine : Fallout: New Vegas

» Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:18 am

A target that have 10+ DT the Assault Carbine loaded with 5mm AP ammo will do more damage than the 10mm SMG.

SMG on the other hand is far better against lightly armored, or unarmored, targets.

» Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:01 am

I think 5mm ammo is much more common in stores than out in the wasteland, I just got the assault carbine and I never really looked at how much 5mm ammo gun vendors sold before but now I've seen just how much there is. At gun runners I found 700 5mm ap round and they were like 2 caps each, whereas I only found like 50 regular 10mm rounds.

» Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:05 pm

lol, thank you. I thought I was going crazy. There's more to it than just the size of the round....

Pete, thanks for that post. It makes me feel a LITTLE better that the spread is better (but I can't understand what the AP round damage is from that table).
Still though, I think that given the way the game is designed with Damage Threshold, a low DAM weapon is pretty worthless (with exception to the recharger rifle which is fun because it doesn't require ammo).

Can someone tell me whether AP 5mm ammo is common? If so where can I get it? I really want to have a reason to carry/use the Assault Carbine.

That part of the table is for Action points/Damage ratio. not Armour pierceing rounds.

» Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:38 am

Try the "code" tag, which forces a fixed-width font...

Tried that with no luck :brokencomputer:
It just created more problems with the font.....Grrrrr
But thanks anyway

» Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:09 pm

I have STR 4, Assault Carbine FTW.

» Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:46 am

Assault Carbine has more RANGE

» Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:20 am

Lets look at this from a practical standpoint. I will ignore ballistics and physics and kinetic energy here.

When your fighting a bunch of people close up, you want to spray as many bullets into the crowd as you can to cut down as many enemies as possible in as short amount of time as possible, and a machine gun is ideal for that. The fact that there is less energy being applied to the target per round is offset by the fact that more rounds will land on target.

When you have time to take aim and choose your targets, it is because they are farther away and you have the time to do so, that is when you want one bullet to do as much work as possible. A machine gun, just because of recoil will not be accurate over a larger distance, whereas a rifle will be more accurate at a distance, and carry more kinetic energy when it gets there.

So, use both and switch out based on tactics needed to win the fight.

IRL, AFAIK, full auto weapons are generally used for suppressive fire. Under these conditions, more smaller bullets > fewer bigger bullets. Suppressive fire relies on a sense of self-preservation in the target to work. Since Vipers and Powder Ganger armed with knives will happily charge a power armored, minigun wielding maniac, suppressive fire it out.

Also, the flipside of not smaller bullets not transferring as much KE into their target and reducing their knockdown power is that smaller rounds with equal gunpowder have better penetration of light cover and body armor.

» Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:57 am

EDIT: Yes I did take into account the gun condition. Both are 100%.

I don't understand why the stats (DAM, DPS) for the 10mm SMG are greater than the Assault Carbine? I don't remember the exact numbers, but it says something like this in the Pip-Boy (overall Gun Skill 75, Strength 7):

10mm SMG
DAM: 17
DPS: 147

Assault Carbine
DAM: 10
DPS: 120

I really would like to use the Assault Carbine but there's no point in buying it or ever using it. I mean, a DAM of 17 for the SMG is at least usable, but a DAM of 10 is practically worthless. Plus, the 10mm SMG has a larger clip and costs less.

wtf were they thinking here or am I missing something? The thing that frustrates me is that there is almost no reason for this weapon to be in the game - at least I can't see one.

I have 99 Guns skill and my DAM for the SMG and AC are 19 and 17 respectively. Strange that the carbine scales that much more with skill level. Maybe those metrics account for critical chance or other perks...I do not know. I have neither the Commando or the similar perk for hand guns.

I had both at the same time. As has been said, Assault Carbine is more accurate. I found the SMG is only good at melee range (and this with 99 Guns skill). Anything further away and the Assault Carbine wins (for me) over the 10mm SMG but again, my DAM and DPS metrics were much closer between the two than yours. All I can say is that for me, the carbine is way better given higher accuracy and range but neither is useful vs high DT hostiles.

» Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:48 am

use land mines and grenades to cripple legs and you can use the carbine to spray with impunity. Just a thought.

» Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:00 am

In any case real-life ballistics aside it makes no sense for the assault carbine in-game to be such a worthless weapon.

It's not worthless, it is great for cazadors and Radscorpians. Tears them to shreds.

» Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:03 pm

There's no hand loaded 5mm, and the hand loaded 10mm is great, giving it another advantage.