hardcoe Mode In Skyrim : V - Skyrim

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:10 pm

I find it amusing that people say hardcoe mode is "Immersive" and "Realistic"... How is the game popping up to tell you with another clunky interface element "Blue Wizard Needs Food Badly" every few minutes Immersive or realistic? In Fallout, it made sense because food and clean water are scarce, and so you'd have to manage your consumption of it. In The Elder Scrolls, food and water are abundant, and the only "Challenge" added is remembering to go grocery shopping while you're selling your loot.

The time compression of the game makes it really difficult... I remember some particularly nasty battles in Oblivion taking almost a "Day" to finish.

Well its more realistic than walking around for days without consuming food or water. hardcoe mode in this game would make it more realistic

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:12 pm

So we all have mentioned a possible hardcoe mode in skyrim (nothing mentioned by bethesda yet keep in mind) but does anyone really want one? I know everyone always has the "If you don't like it dont use/do it" argument for many things, wether it be about different fast travel methods or the main quest or whatever, but i think i have a problem when it comes to this, if it's there, implemented into the game, ive got to use it, otherwise i dont feel like ive played the game to its full! So one thing i dont want is hardcoe mode, i like to play my TES how i want without fear that if i dont select the option that means i have to sleep and drink water every five minutes im playing like a loser and not to its full challenge. Now i DO want realistic aspects to this game, but it doesnt have to be SO realistic that the game isnt fun any more, one thing i heard on a recent thread probably still active that i really like is that if a bag system is implemented into the game then you should be able to drop it if your weighing quite heavy and want to jump into a fight, then just pick it back up afterwards, but even though i like this idea i still think we should able to fit unrealistic amounts of stuff into the bag like on oblvion and such, but we control wether we want to wear it or not. Also we could put in say, you have to feed your mount sometimes depending on how big he is and the amount of space of time before he gets tired and needs to feed and sleep again, but not REALISTIC and short amounts of time. I dont want the game split into two seperate game modes, because if i get the choice i would want to play the game with fun and how i want, but even if hardcoe mode is a option and it will take all the fun out of doing what you want and will keep you running around after yourself sims style, even if i dont want to do it i will otherwise i wont feel ive played the game to the max. So... any ideas, complaints, flames, thoughts, opinions, or any other possible method of expressing your mind?

Could probably stop a dragon with this wall.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:40 pm

FoNW (made by obsidian) had a terrible food/drink/sleep system, wasn't more realistic at all. Terrible.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:03 am

I'm indifferent. I never really played the hardcoe mode in New Vegas so if it is in Skyrim I would never play it.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:25 pm

I'd love a hardcoe mode - especially if it included elemental effects, such as frostbite and hypothermia. I also like having to eat and sleep etc. although I can see why the whole thing would be irritating to some.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:26 pm

I would definitely like to see a hardcoe mode in Skyrim and, as someone else mentioned, I think the inclusion of cooking as a doable task points to their being a hardcoe mode (as opposed to an expansion of the alchemy system). I haven't played the Fallout games, so I can't comment on that system. However, I would enjoy the added challenge such a system would introduce. The #1 thing I do in TES games is explore the wilderness, and the strategy introduced by a hardcoe mode would just make exploring more exciting for me. Having to plan out how much food to take, where to get water from, how long and how fast to travel, etc would make the game more engaging for me, and the limited range/endurance of treks into the wilderness would make it all the more rewarding when I survive an attack by bandits/giants/whatever and find some valuable loot to bring back to town and sell. I think the increased sense of accomplishment outweighs the hassle of having to eat/drink.

That said, the system does not need to be a hassle. With the compressed length of the days, I don't need a dialogue box popping up every 5-10 min telling me I need to eat or something (honestly I would prefer that there be no warning, you would just gradually lose endurance/health, but that is besides the point). And I really don't think it is necessary to eat 3 times a day, every day. So I want to see a hardcoe mode, but it needs to be done correctly without taking the teeth out of the experience.

I'd love a hardcoe mode - especially if it included elemental effects, such as frostbite and hypothermia. I also like having to eat and sleep etc. although I can see why the whole thing would be irritating to some.

That would be awesome. There might actually be some point to the Nord "frost resistance" other than lessened damage by frost spells.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:49 pm

I find it amusing that people say hardcoe mode is "Immersive" and "Realistic"... How is the game popping up to tell you with another clunky interface element "Blue Wizard Needs Food Badly" every few minutes Immersive or realistic?
(...)
The time compression of the game makes it really difficult... I remember some particularly nasty battles in Oblivion taking almost a "Day" to finish.

An otherwise admirable post - because it actually provides a sound reason in the case agaisnt hardcoe mode - is ruined by a Straw Man tactic.
I don't think there are too many of us hardcoe apologists who crave that caricature of yours. There are far more meaningful and clever ways to implement itt, namely having the pace and precision of your actions decreased.

Next time, please skip the needless caricature.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:49 pm

If it's done properly, I'd love a "hardcoe" mode. I prefer to call it survival mode though

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:22 am

So we all have mentioned a possible hardcoe mode in skyrim (nothing mentioned by bethesda yet keep in mind) but does anyone really want one? I know everyone always has the "If you don't like it dont use/do it" argument for many things, wether it be about different fast travel methods or the main quest or whatever, but i think i have a problem when it comes to this, if it's there, implemented into the game, ive got to use it, otherwise i dont feel like ive played the game to its full! So one thing i dont want is hardcoe mode, i like to play my TES how i want without fear that if i dont select the option that means i have to sleep and drink water every five minutes im playing like a loser and not to its full challenge. Now i DO want realistic aspects to this game, but it doesnt have to be SO realistic that the game isnt fun any more, one thing i heard on a recent thread probably still active that i really like is that if a bag system is implemented into the game then you should be able to drop it if your weighing quite heavy and want to jump into a fight, then just pick it back up afterwards, but even though i like this idea i still think we should able to fit unrealistic amounts of stuff into the bag like on oblvion and such, but we control wether we want to wear it or not. Also we could put in say, you have to feed your mount sometimes depending on how big he is and the amount of space of time before he gets tired and needs to feed and sleep again, but not REALISTIC and short amounts of time. I dont want the game split into two seperate game modes, because if i get the choice i would want to play the game with fun and how i want, but even if hardcoe mode is a option and it will take all the fun out of doing what you want and will keep you running around after yourself sims style, even if i dont want to do it i will otherwise i wont feel ive played the game to the max. So... any ideas, complaints, flames, thoughts, opinions, or any other possible method of expressing your mind?

So basically you get the game you want either way,

but you would like to take something optional away from the gamers that would enjoy the hardcoe mode just because you can't trust yourself not to use and not enjoy???

Wow, thats as selfish as they come IMO

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:39 pm

So basically you get the game you want either way,

but you would like to take something optional away from the gamers that would enjoy the hardcoe mode just because you can't trust yourself not to use and not enjoy???

Wow, thats as selfish as they come IMO

Thank you for having the testicular fortitude to say what I wanted to say previously Karniest! Frankly, I have started a many a new character on OB and said, "I WILL NOT use fast travel." This of course lasts until I need to travel to Cheydinhal from Anvil for the fourth time....Therefore, if I were to think in the same manner as Fin (only judging by his posts, im sure he is actually far more open minded in reality) , I would encourage the obliteration of fast travel as a whole because of my lack of self control. Preposterous

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:27 pm

I just wanted to point out that the hardest part of Fallout New Vegas 'hardcoe' mode was not the sleep/hunger/dehydration meter.... it was the fact that ammunition had weight.

In TES everything is already way heavier than it would be for Fallout. A lead pipe in Fallout would probably weigh less than 8, but if it was magically transported into Oblivion it would be at least 30 lbs. Also, since the only thing that has ammunition already has weighted ammo a drink meter would just be a bore.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:26 pm

I just wanted to point out that the hardest part of Fallout New Vegas 'hardcoe' mode was not the sleep/hunger/dehydration meter.... it was the fact that ammunition had weight.

In TES everything is already way heavier than it would be for Fallout. A lead pipe in Fallout would probably weigh less than 8, but if it was magically transported into Oblivion it would be at least 30 lbs. Also, since the only thing that has ammunition already has weighted ammo a drink meter would just be a bore.

Must be a bigger planet than Earth, or they use a different measuring system that happens to carry the same classification.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:52 am

Honestly, the most engaging part of hardcoe mode of New Vegas was that stimpaks healed over time, in addition to that, ammo weight as also significant and something you had to keep track of. However, food and water were an annoyance at worst, and a ritual at best.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:26 am

I find it amusing that people say hardcoe mode is "Immersive" and "Realistic"... How is the game popping up to tell you with another clunky interface element "Blue Wizard Needs Food Badly" every few minutes Immersive or realistic? In Fallout, it made sense because food and clean water are scarce, and so you'd have to manage your consumption of it. In The Elder Scrolls, food and water are abundant, and the only "Challenge" added is remembering to go grocery shopping while you're selling your loot.

The time compression of the game makes it really difficult... I remember some particularly nasty battles in Oblivion taking almost a "Day" to finish.

You know, you can set the game's timescale

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:46 pm

I'd love a hardcoe mode - especially if it included elemental effects, such as frostbite and hypothermia. I also like having to eat and sleep etc. although I can see why the whole thing would be irritating to some.

right right

burns, nerve damage, frost bite, hypothermia, dehydration (from fire spells and not drinking), bleeding, sleep, food,

your enemies should be affected by hardcoe mode as well. if you stick an arrow in an enemies back it should eventually kill him if he runs away. same with stabing, hacking, and bludgeons to the head(knock em out/ coma).

you should have the option to kill and eat your pet (only unresponsible [censored]s would do so but, they should still be givin the option so they'll never forget what they did)

uhhh let's see.............. :flamethrower: thats cool.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:53 am

I think the biggest problem with any sort of "hardcoe" mode is that its issues are instantaneously resolved. The in-game actions do not represent the difficulties present in real life. In real life, when I am tired in an African savanna, I have to go to sleep for hours on end with potential every single second that I am going to be attacked. SLEEPING takes effort in such situations. But in-game, I press the wait button, I rest until healed, the ticker flies by, and I just spent one second in real life time sleeping hours and hours in game. If I'm hungry in real life, I must take the time to sit down, have food in the first place, and then eat it, all the while in potential danger now that my guard is down. In game? You open a menu that pauses the game, and you take the food and move it over your guy and you hear a gulping sound effect and then that's it. You just at an entire meal in an instant, and that nagging message about hunger went away. No danger at all to you. If you're cold in real life, you constantly have to battle it by putting on clothing, making sure you don't sweat so it won't freeze and then kill you. In game? You put on sufficient clothing and then the game stops complaining.

The issue is that none of these problems take the effort that they do in real life. That is what turns them from important tasks to pestering annoyances. That is why active problems like ammo weight, stimpaks healing over time, and needing a doctor's bag to fix broken limbs are so much more powerful. These are truly game changing, and are constant issues. The game doesn't squeal at you that you have too much ammo and should drop/sell/store some because that next dungeon will leave you overweight. No, you have to keep track of it and decide whether you're going to drop ammo or whether you need it and are going to drop something else. Stimpaks healing over time are game changing and are constantly weighing on a fighter's decisions, as are limbs being broken. These problems do not appear, nag, then quickly disappear. No, they are much more integrated into one's experiences.

Eating, drinking, sleeping, and potentially cold/heat issues need to be much the same. They need to be obstacles that are constantly in your way, not something that pops up only to be demolished in the press of a single piece of food or a single bottle of water.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:41 am

OP, if you're looking for some feedback and ideas on a hardcoe mode there's discussions going on here http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1184302-hard-core-mode-yay-or-nay/page__fromsearch__1 , here http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1191134-skyrim-hardcoe-mode/page__fromsearch__1 , here http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1193285-hardcoe-options/page__fromsearch__1 , here http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1193883-hardcoe-mode/page__fromsearch__1 , and here
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1194699-do-you-want-a-hardcoe-option/page__fromsearch__1

This is missing something.......what is it.......Oh yeah a link to MY hardcoe mode post. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1194733-hardcoe-mode-or-something-new/page__p__17752075__fromsearch__1#entry17752075

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:32 pm

I think the biggest problem with any sort of "hardcoe" mode is that its issues are instantaneously resolved. The in-game actions do not represent the difficulties present in real life. In real life, when I am tired in an African savanna, I have to go to sleep for hours on end with potential every single second that I am going to be attacked. SLEEPING takes effort in such situations. But in-game, I press the wait button, I rest until healed, the ticker flies by, and I just spent one second in real life time sleeping hours and hours in game. If I'm hungry in real life, I must take the time to sit down, have food in the first place, and then eat it, all the while in potential danger now that my guard is down. In game? You open a menu that pauses the game, and you take the food and move it over your guy and you hear a gulping sound effect and then that's it. You just at an entire meal in an instant, and that nagging message about hunger went away. No danger at all to you. If you're cold in real life, you constantly have to battle it by putting on clothing, making sure you don't sweat so it won't freeze and then kill you. In game? You put on sufficient clothing and then the game stops complaining.

The issue is that none of these problems take the effort that they do in real life. That is what turns them from important tasks to pestering annoyances. That is why active problems like ammo weight, stimpaks healing over time, and needing a doctor's bag to fix broken limbs are so much more powerful. These are truly game changing, and are constant issues. The game doesn't squeal at you that you have too much ammo and should drop/sell/store some because that next dungeon will leave you overweight. No, you have to keep track of it and decide whether you're going to drop ammo or whether you need it and are going to drop something else. Stimpaks healing over time are game changing and are constantly weighing on a fighter's decisions, as are limbs being broken. These problems do not appear, nag, then quickly disappear. No, they are much more integrated into one's experiences.

Eating, drinking, sleeping, and potentially cold/heat issues need to be much the same. They need to be obstacles that are constantly in your way, not something that pops up only to be demolished in the press of a single piece of food or a single bottle of water.

What if food spoiled if you wait too long to eat it? That could add a bit of a challenge and make the availability of food more of an issue than it otherwise might be in the setting.

And I agree that you shouldn't be able to down a steak or potion in the midst of combat for example. Healing over time when downing a health potion would be a definite improvement.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:26 pm

hardcoe mode in NV was hardcoe for about 5 minutes.

Then it was "Hey follower, toss me another survival kit and we'll be set for a few more hours (real time)"

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:38 pm

I don't think it will really work in Skyrim. As someone else stated, this isn't a post-apocalyptic world where food and water are scarce and often irradiated.

hardcoe in Fallout? Sure. It makes more sense.

In TES? No thanks.

» Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:29 pm

I don't think it will really work in Skyrim. As someone else stated, this isn't a post-apocalyptic world where food and water are scarce and often irradiated.

hardcoe in Fallout? Sure. It makes more sense.

In TES? No thanks.

If food spoiled over time it might be an issue. There are no refrigerators in Tamriel. :sick: