It is more that a lot of people remember the Fallout games and RPGs in general that used to give you cart blanche (or sometimes a choice) in backstory. You made it up yourself, filled the reasons and back-story in.
If you are capable of that creativity with only basics to work with this can result into wondrous characters.
I found the Fallout 3 story capable of connecting, but for the rest it was pretty inflexible in allowing me to be a character of my own choosing.

In short you aren't supposed to connect with 'The Courier'. You are supposed to create him from the ground up.
Both are viable and good ways to go about it, but from a traditional Fallout view, the character was often left blank with you filling in everything except perhaps where you are from and what you're supposed to do.

I think you've simultaneously hit the nail on the head and missed the point entirely.

FO3's 'kid from Vault 101' was one of the biggest problems for me because it immediately stopped being an RPG. Straight away you have a forced age, a forced back story, even a forced route to take in the game.
That's not an RPG, it's an action adventure game with an open world. Joining the ranks of...well almost every game released in the last 5/6 years.

Being unable to cast the courier in a personable role says more about you to be frank. We are given nothing beyond the fact that you were a courier and you were shot in the head. That's it. No age, no name, no history, no nothing. That's why it's an RPG, you make the role and then you play it...

Put it this way.
In New Vegas you create the role then play it out as you wish.

In Fallout 3, a role is created for you and then you have to follow it. Sure you have some leniency, you can commit mass murder if you want, but it just isn't an RPG...


I liked it, quite a lot, the DLC fixed some things and seriously broke others but it was still a more than enjoyable game. It just isn't a real RPG (and I'm not saying that to be elitist, I love the FF games, they sure as hell are not RPG's, there should be another category made for such games) it's an action adventure game and there are better ones out there.

A Defintion of a RPG we all play today from wiki.

'Single player role-playing video games form a loosely defined genre of computer and console games with origins in role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons, on which they base much of their terminology, settings and game mechanics.[18] This translation changes the experience of the game, providing a visual representation of the world but emphasizing statistical character development over collaborative, interactive storytelling.'

If F3 doesn't fit in to that category neither does Dungeons & dragons.

So what? I just kill a few Viper for 10mm SMGs and pay them of (in good condition they pay for a lot). Two hour distraction at most. Besides, i'd say being ambushed and shot in the head counts as a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure event

EXACTLY what I was trying to say, glad someone agrees.

dup.

Would have been amusing to wake up and everyone is dead...except for the Enclave and the people in Vault 101...like something out of 28 Days Later. Would have been hard to come up with quests though unless you want to get hired by the Enclave to haul off the corpses for burning.

Heh...maybe I should write a fanfic about it.

Speaking of limited options when it comes to being a [censored]...

Why can't I join the Fiends? They are one of the biggest factions in NV yet I can't join the ranks. I'm forced to kill them, or seeing the sight of my own blad.

I guess after the forced protagonists of the first 3 Fallouts, the Courier feels like a blank slate, but it appears the DLCs may be filling in his back story some. I don't mind, but I'm not a roleplayer.

The courier's weird, though. Are we meant to assume he's amnesiac to some degree? How on Earth could he not know what the Mojave Outpost is, for instance? He'd have to go through it to reach Vegas, wouldn't he? (I can't imagine he went cross country, unless he was stupid.)

Probably because the Fiends aren't much more than drug psychos with well stocked EW-armory and they didn't see much use in taking the time to develop them as a joinable faction.


An unfortunate side effect of introductory exposition. The Courier probably should know it, but the player can't on his first run-through. The need to explain it to the player trumps the knowledge the Courier is supposed to have.

Exactly. Many games have that problem. Like take MASS EFFECT 1, he's a commander of the alliance millitary, yet he's never been to the largest city in the galaxy. I loved how Fallout 3, 2 and 1 had a feeling of seclusion wether it be a vault or a tribal city which you couldn't leave, you were always separated from the world. At the start of Fallout 3 (despite it's graphics) when you leave the vault for the first time and you see the big open wastes that was a powerful moment. With New Vegas they did the same thing on a smaller scale, and nothing was new to the character. Just didn't work as well.

I'm not seeing how it's any less of a legitimate motivation than your motivation in Fallout 3, or any of the Fallout games for that matter. Fallout 3's motivation relies on the Lone Wanderer actually caring about their father and/or why he left, and that doesn't necessarily have to be the case; it's just as easy to nitpick at and rip apart Fallout 3's motivator as it is New Vegas' because of this. The fact of the matter is that the Courier has plenty of possible valid reasons to pursue Benny and the chip, so complaining about motivation in the initial goal is quite silly.



The Courier is obligated to go after their package until they either recover it, or they're dead; those are the terms they consciously agreed to when signing the contract. The Courier isn't dead, so it's his or her job to recover the chip.

I agree with you. I loved FO3 and I love New Vegas. To me they are two different games, not a continuation. Different PC, different circumstances, different time and different location. I find the factions and playing against them or with them or deceiving them to be more entertaining than just running around finding quest items. I get attached to the companions and want to see them either die or make it, depending on my courier, and I have the power to do so. I rarely used the companions in FO3 but I have enjoyed them in New Vegas. As far as the streetlights, I skimmed through most of the comments and I saw little or no mention of Hoover Dam. There is power in New Vegas because of the dam, it is after all, what the entire ending of the story is based on, who keeps it, who looses it or who messes up everyone and claims it for the courier. I have plenty of motivation throughout the game, whether I want to clean up my image by finally trying to cooperate or end up blasting everyone in every community, this game is all about choices. I might even don some powder ganger clothes and fit right in even though I killed Eddie, it's all my choice and we're given the tools to play it our way.

Please delete, duplicate post, this forum is really slow today, sorry.

Oh, sure. But it would have been just as informative for the Courier to ask how things have been lately, if you follow. You don't need constant exposition. If we're intelligent enough to play the game surely you can read between the lines. It's perfectly obvious what the outpost is there for.
Yes, I'm being needlessly picky. Sorry -- slow day. :biggrin:

In Fallout 3 you're cast out of the only world you know into a new, unknown and hostile one. The only thing in it you know and (optionally ) love is your dad who is somewhere out there. Maybe it just me, but it works better :nod:



Maybe so, but there is no urgency or threat of any kind. It is implied, but as nothing to that effect happens in the game, it's just seems like an impotent threath (for the lack of better description :blush:) That is true for Fallout 3 too of course, there's no reason to rush after daddy. And i rarely do.

Was going to say, as opposed to Oblivion where we had to save the world or FO3 where Dad's vanished and, dependent on where you are, various fights are kicking off? But covered.

Possible other explanation for the lack of Courier awareness is amnesia after taking two bullets to the head? Not exactly scientific but it is extreme trauma so certainly short lived trauma, beyond that one can argue various things, the backstory being illuminated by DLC's seems to suggest the Courier came from the west so likely DID pass through the outpost, ruling out suddenly dropping in on, say, a crashed vertibird (I maintain that it's a good RP) or so on. So yeah they should know about it...guess the only in world explanation is amnesia, temporary or otherwise (that or as some games do, pretend it didn't happen, "Press X to run" "What?!" "Nothing...")

It could have been handled differently I'll agree. But the designers/writers obviously felt the need for a more thorough exposition than a read-between-the-lines one.

I think that, with Roleplaying games like Fallout, one shouldn't always expect everything to be the same. The big bonus of RPGs is that they're HUUUUUUUGE and there's tons of new and different content. The downside is...well if you liked the "new and different" content of Morrowind or Fallout 3, then you may miss it when it doesn't appear in Oblivion or New Vegas.

Personally? I hated Dad. Screw him. When I left the Vault in Fallout 3, I only sought after dad because I knew the game wanted me to. Fallout 3 did NOTHING to establish a relationship between the player and dad. I mean, when Jonas died and characters were like "omg I'm so sorry," I wasn't thinking "NOOOOOOO my best friend Jonas," I was thinking "lol who the hell is that?" I would've been perfectly happy ignoring Dad and exploring, but I knew I'd miss out on important parts of the game if I did. Thus, the main quest felt like a chore. Dad also felt like a bit of a loon to me. "What, the Enclave wants to take credit for Project Purity? Well obviously the only reasonable solution is to blow the thing up so nobody can have clean water." Wtf Dad?!? The story itself is also VERY linear. "We wanna do good but these bad guys are trying to stop us." Very basic and not very involving. And Super Mutants....It was a little odd that everyone talked about them like they were the worst enemy in the game, yet the game insists you go fight an army of them at level 4. New Vegas will gladly let you fight Deathclaws at level 4, but good luck succeeding.
New Vegas on the other hand? [censored] shot me in the head. Very simple, but also very motivating. A lot of people are vengeful and would be driven by revenge alone. Me? I'm driven by questions and figuring out the unknown. I wanted to know why I got shot and what was going on. Hell, are you trying to tell me that when you get shot in the head, you say "huh, that was weird" and then just go about your day? Hell no, you naturally want answers. Fallout New Vegas knew that they couldn't convince you to feel attached to a character you've only known for the first five minutes, so instead they made you hate him, or at least curious as to what his motives were. The storyline overall is also much more involving. You have to think. You have to figure out who you judge as good and who you judge as bad, and always choosing the peaceful solution doesn't always give the most peaceful results. Admittedly, the storyline ITSELF isn't that interesting: it's just the build-ups to the war. There's plenty of interesting views and opinions to be heard though, and I for one can't wait to find out about the story behind Ulysses.


I disagree with you on the final battles as well. Fallout 3 was all scripts with little to no combat as you walked behind a giant robot. Fallout New Vegas has far more combat. I also dunno why you're complaining about being able to resolve the war peacefully, as you could also convince the Colonel to leave Project Purity peacefully...

If there's anything I liked better in Fallout 3, it was exploring. Fallout 3 had the most random, interesting locations with the most random, interesting rewards and prizes. New Vegas on the other hand is very civilized with very few barren locations to explore. About the only location that I can think of that was memorable to explore in New Vegas is Vault 11. Every single vault in Fallout 3 was an adventure, and the sewers had ghouls with party hats.


All in all, I think it's just something everyone needs to accept: each game will be different. Some players may not like how special and important your character is in a game like Morrowind, and prefer a more humble role as more of a soldier in Fallout 3. Others may love being -THE- center of the world and they'd be rather disappointed with the more humble positions. If the same level of importance and storyline was used in every game, then that'd get boring. Very quickly. At any rate, they're all still great games.