Lorkhan and Akatosh aren't the original, Anu & Padomay are with Nirn as the female aspect... I'm not sure if we know for certain their witness but I'd throw out Akatosh...

Female doesn't refer to gender, as the enantiomorph is the mechanism by which the Aurbis was created, when there was no such thing as male and female. Gods only have a six because we project one on them, or they project them on themselves. Female is a description of certain roles and attributes mortals ascribe to women. Think the DaVinci Code. The Female Principle is an ideal, and acting out an ideal is playing a role.

Luagar: I think MK's formula has multiple roles accorded to one actor for a reason. Just because the Khajiit or call Nirni a female doesn't mean she is the female principle. Anu reacted with Padomay, not Anu with Nirni. The two originals were the opposites that created the Aurbis. Who acted first? Doesn't matter, because they are the interchangeables, the mirror images. Nirni must be the witness by process of elimination and if she isn't just another name for Aurbis please let me know.

Very good question. If you ask me, I'd go for Magnus. He was close buddies with Lorkhan, was the architect of Mundus, but then left in disgust/was kicked off the grand design. And he paid dearly, as is quite evident when staring into the sun.

Trinimac got eaten and [censored] out.

Lol, where did that come from??? I'm confused; no one said anything about Trinimac did they?

Trinimac tore Lorky's heart out, remember? He was the third direct actor in that affair, and another who got messed up, but perhaps not as a result of it.

Oh. Well, I REMEMBERED it, but I didn't know where you were going at.

You were asking who the witness was.

Oh I know that. I meant I didn't know what you were getting at at the TIME. I didn't say I don't get it.

It's referred to as the female principle regardless for reference, and I use it just because 'female' is the most commonly associated one... and either way, its the Anuad that poses the Anu/Padomay enantiomorphic relationship, which uses Nir[n] as a female; the Khajiit are just another group that recognize the relationship and also allot Nirn[i] as being female...

I think Trinimac makes a good candidate.

Part of the Witness' part seems to be to record what happened i.e. "Hrol did love unto a hillock", Alandro Sul's oural tradition of Red Mountain through the ashlanders, Morihaus writing the Adabal-a etc. With Lorkhan dead and Auriel ascended (arguably the same event) it would fall on Trinimac, who could be said to be Auriel's sheild-thane to pass onto the Aldmer what happened.

I'm still learning about Whitestrake, but from what I've heard, he's basically both Akatosh and Lorkhan in one. If he comprises 2 side of the Enantiomorph in one, how would it be completed? Were the Ayleids his "opposite," somehow, or did the "cutting-into-eights" thing have a bigger purpose than the Ayleid numerology fanaticism?

Notice how no one really cares about the witness most of the time? The Enantiomorph is mostly about the mirror, the duality, the conflict, and Pelinal was just Akatosh and Lorkhan.

If you notice, Pelinal, Alessia and Morihaus make an incredibly perfect trio, but it's not significant beyond the fact that its there.

Well Jyggalag is Jyggalag is Jyggalag makes perfect sense but Jyggalag is Jyggalag is Lorkhan does too so there. Two apples don't make an orange. But you can put an orange in a basket full of apples.





Twelve originals. Twelve ab-originals. Three keys to Soloman's Temple.

It does to me too in a weird way. After Nalion's comment, I started to be skeptical about the idea, but SHEOG's poems that I read in the "Mad God's Masque ball" in TIL seem pretty "enlightened" in a sense, regarding existence being an illusion. While the Dam Dog IS insane, I still FEEL like he's more sane than most thing...in a very strange way.

While I don't really think he's Lorkhan in the Enantiomorph sense, he has to be a PIECE of Lorkhan, in the least. Both he and JYG are a very strange case: JYG's sphere is Order, or perhaps Exactitude more specifically, yet he's a Padomaic. That makes no damn sense. Lorkhan is a Padomaic who didn't directly create the world, yet because he's the architect (not literally - I know Magnus is, but I'm speaking more metaphorically), he has a very direct connection to it. That ALSO makes no sense; he's one of the Padomaics, who have no connection to creation.

What is the connection between Lorkhan and Jyggalag? Why isn't there any mention of JYG in any creation myth, yet he and LKHAN are so connected that his death made JYG flip from Exactitude into Randomness? Those might be simple questions, but I haven't had much time to think about these particular ideas; I just thought of this as I was writing.

Paws,

I would agree with Trinimac being the witness. Alandro Sul was blinded by what he saw. So, too, did Trinimac, if one considers his "corruption" a "blinding" or stepping away from the "light" of Aetherius and into the black sea of Oblivion.

One thing does puzzle me, though. I have yet to see a "witness" that took such a direct part in the event as Trinimac. What are your thoughts, my friend?

(Oh, and btw, I think the word "[censored]" has GOT to be the funniest word in existence....except of course for [OBSCURED TO MORTALS].)

___TWM

It is said that the most brilliant minds are often more than a bit touched.


There is a difference between being Anuic and being an Aedra, or being Padomaic and being a Daedra. You can theoretically be a Anuic Daedra, or a Padomaic Aedra.


Jyggalag was just a placeholder name up until SI. I don't know that it was the most thought out idea, but you can make it work if you really try.

My thoughts? Add it to the list. We are horribly positioned to name and evaluate such things. We're better off sticking with their effects.

I have a hunch:

...So one day Boethiah, Prince of Plots, precocious youth, tricked Trinimac to go into his mouth. Boethiah talked like Trinimac for awhile then, and gathered enough people to listen to him. Boethiah showed them the lies of the et'Ada, the Aedra, and told them Trinimac was the biggest liar of all, saying all this with Trinimac's voice![...]Boethiah told the mass before him the Tri-Angled Truth...

That reminds me of Umaril's threat. Scary.

I still feel that Malacath can be transformed back into Trinimac via a mythical redemption.


When you think about it, Everything in the TES universe is a lie. Even the 'truth' told by Boethiah.


So, what exactly IS truth? What is a lie?

The original lie is that just because something =1 something has to =0

Take away that and unravel all the mythic binary back to PSJJJ.

Hmm. Reading a piece of the Loveletter made me think of something, and I guess it does seem a bit simple: when the Aedra were Named in the creation of the Mundus (BEFORE the death of Lorkhan), everything was Exact; it was still technically the Mythic Era, right? If so, when LKHAN is finally killed by Trinimac, the Exactness of the World is destroyed; JYG-that-is-SHEOG DIDN'T technically exist then, as Nazz "sorta" pointed out.

The removal of Lorkhan's spark creates an unexact, Sithis-shaped hole in the Aurbis; enter SHEOG, who is "technically" created at this point.

That seems to make sense, but it still seems a bit broken...

Well Akatosh landed and imposed Time on the Mundus in order to debate about Lorkhan's fate, correct? Magnus' flight of trailing shreds of being was just a precursor to the chaos caused by Lorkhan's destruction.

It fits, except for Jygallag's classification. I say we make him do a Meridia.

To be entirely honest Wierd, truth is a perverted flavor that one must find taste for; not for one that must taste.