I would lead them right of a LEDGE lol jk.

contrived it may be, but still, the question remains.

The Rangers priorities would be what I tell them to do.

1)Cottonwood Cove can be wiped out by the Rangers at Camp Echo with a Co-ordinated effort from troops sent east from Mojave Outpost with orders to dump radioactive waste from the southeastern cliffside with Rangers sniping commanders such as Aurelius of Pheonix to cause disarray. Mojave soldiers would then move down and wipe out the remaining Legionairies.

2)Brotherhood of Steel would not be a threat to NCR interests after an alliance is forwarded to the chapter Elder. BoS would be free to move without NCR hostility and gain access to salvaged Enclave and Vertibird technology. In return BoS would patrol I-15 as well as sending a research team to Helios One to activate Archimedes, Helios would also be defending by a Paladin security detachment, relieving 75% of NCR troops stationed there to be relocated 50/50 to Nelson and McCarran.

3)Black Mountain Super Mutants are currently a minimal threat to NCR interests due to only attacking humans who go too near their territory; if however this increased a Ranger deployment would be sent in as a night operation to deactivate radio communications via sabotage of the radio station itself as well as placing c4 throughout the Black Mountain encampment and then regroup at a key vantage point east of the camp where they would detonate the explosives, destroying the radio building and therefore Tabitha as well as sniping off any survivors.

4)As said several times previously, 1st Recon and Ranger deployments at McCarran would be sent to specifically wipeout all above ground Fiend leadership in the west New Vegas area. Once this has achieved the relocated group from Helios One, accompanied by 1st Recon would be sent to the Vault 3 location where they would kill all above ground Fiends and cover the entrance to Vault 3 with concrete.

Results so you understand what happened.

1)Cottonwood Cove wiped out and rendered inoperable by Legion forces permanently.
2)BoS alliance means no further conflict with BoS as well as BoS technology experience has made Helios One operational and is defended by a BoS/NCR garrison, freeing up troops for Nelson and other areas.
3)Black Mountain super mutants, if causing further threat to NCR interests, would be wiped out by a Night-Op by a Ranger Veteran strike force.
4) Fiend leadership decimated and a significant portion of the Fiends wiped out with the destruction of Vault 3. Remaining NCR forces be sent to deal with scattered Fiend groups.Divide and conquer.

1. Like the Cottonwood plan :thumbsup:
2. The reason I don't believe a BOS alliance is on the table is because without the courier what would move them to do so? Without Mccaran troops right on their front door why would they? Remember when that Ranger was near their bunker? They were happy if you killed the man. That said I doubt a dipolmatic situation can be reached without Mccaran troops repositioned for leverage. A BOS dipo. would be nice but if it doesn't happen bring down the hammer.
3. I like the plan except the desturction of the radio equipment. If Raul could get it up and running I know some NCR engineers could boost the signal to the whole waste. NCR radio, would boost moralle and civilian relatiosn. Also Black Mounation is a major problem if you're talking about increasing the I-15 supply line, with more commerce and traders that place needs to be gone.
4.Here's my thing with the Fiends. I think it would be better if they attacked Westside and Northside. It would make it easier to Annex the places later on. The city gates aren't in Fiend terrority anyway and you could just reroute the supply lines from I-15 to Highway 93 via the outskirts after the quarry. Also Caser won't take the desturction of Cottonwood laying down, remember without it he has almost no offensive. That said those Rangers are needed to secure the Northeast section of the map (near Bittersprings) from further raids and just keep the Colorado safe until the Second Battle begins.

Also to the imperalism thing. The problem isn't that the NCR wants to expand, that it wants more resources, that it wants Vegas. The problem is it's doing it badly. NCR imperialism isn't bad it's the stragety

I think you're all downplaying the Legion's fighting ability. They have proven themselves to be deadly opponents numerous times, and even if all the NCR's defeats have been due to poor leadership and strategy, beating the Legion is no mean feat.

I agree to remove the troops from New Vegas in order to show how much good they do. Disband McCarran for a few months and do something useful with those troops, all the while letting the Fiends wreak havoc on the inhabitants of Vegas. When the NCR returns, the citizens should accept them with open arms.

2) NCR knows already that the BoS need to be dealt with and I would rather they allied with us than be against us; they have tech expertise that is extremely valuable especially if they can get Helios up and running and allowing NCR to free up the garrison there. I'd send an envoy to the BoS Hidden Valley Bunker with the terms offered and knowing that the majority want the lockdown ended and to be able to move once more, I'd use that to my advantage.

I think also you need to stop questioning what the NCR knows and doesn't know; you're asking us what we'd change and that is based on our knowledge of current affairs.

3) Perhaps keeping the radio station is a good idea but the intense radiation in the area would be hazardous to NCR personnel plus the signal only reaches a rather small area as it already and that is with Raul being the technician there currently. I'd instead barter with House to update Radio New Vegas to become more NCR-friendly as that can reach the entire Mojave and beyond and does not require any technician or operator as well as dodges the issue of the intense radiation.

4) Allowing the Fiends to attack areas such as Westside would do little for NCR approval; it'd just spread and increase the idea that NCR cannot contain a bunch of drug addled maniacs. Instead the power produced by Helios One and spread to areas that need it such as West and Northside would increase NCR favour and reputation; sending detachments from McCarren to these areas to improve security would also do this as well as portioning off a supply of water from Lake Mead would both improve conditions in the area and get the local population on our side instead of having them massacred and bitter that the NCR didn't help them when they needed it. This would also improve any future attempts at annexing these areas.

Also, redistributing Rangers from Camp Golf evenly between the Ranger Stations on the Colorado line would help deter any possible Legion raids as well as the incoming Baja Rangers allowing us to force back Legion and assault Legion targets in Arizona via night raid tactics. Also, troops freed up from Helios and Ranger Station Foxtrot due to Khan, Jacobstown and BoS treaties would give the Colorado line a far stronger position than it had before.

I totally understand what you're saying about the Legion, and honestly the vast majority of things I'm suggesting would simply improve NCR defense and supply lines. The reason for that is because Arizona and Legion terrority was hardly examined. Plus I think the Legion is often overstated in capabilities. In F:NV without getting lucky at Searchlight they wouldn't of had Cottonwood, or destroyed Nipton, or taken Nelson etc. All of that was possible because of toxic waste in the fire station. Otherwise the Legion was screwed when it came to offense. Did you ever notice the pure number of NCR feral troops in Searchlight? Now picture those guarding the Colorado. That said if the NCR wants to win the second battle they need Nelson for faster reinforcements, they need Forlorn to have higher moralle and faster supplies, they need I-15 to be secure so Camp Golf and the northeastern front can keep the Legion from invading Vegas itself. Once they do that picture all the troops at Helios One, Forlorn, Nelson, and the Dam storming the Fort while Legates camp is bombed. I honestly think the NCR would win.

@Arva

2. But here's the thing, you're still pushing for Mccaran to be up and I don't think that's enough to both squizze the BOS AND secure the highway AND take on the Fiends or at least I wouldn't hedge my bets like that. At least Moore knew the BOS were there and even if they didn't having a full Bat. along I-15 would make that clear enough anyway. That said if a dipo could work sure but either way have that Bat. there in case things don't turn out well.

3.Ok true about the rad. I hadn't thought of that but I know that better equipment would be better than nothing. And as far as House goes just talk to the NCR ambassitor on the strip after the Treaty of Vegas he won't even talk to the man so forget House. Plus since House isn't Pro-NCR anyway I doubt he'd let NCR propaganda radio air on HIS radio New Vegas.

4. Who cares about approval? What matters in this case is this. The Fiends would slaughter the Westside Milita or at least weaken it. The NCR has no hope of controlling the West slums as long as the Milita is so strong. Even after the courier killed the Fiends in game they didn't give a crap, they still hated the NCR. When it comes to the West Side they'll be so weak once the Legion is taken care of the Mccaran troops could be repositioned to take them out. In the meantime let them destroy every idea of indepedence that the West and North have. After the Fiends kill them off the area would be easy enough. Northside has so many NCR squatters already once you add in extended Fiend influence they'll have no choice unless they just want to be killed like the West. As far as the pipeline goes that's a no go, that water is more so needed for the sharecropping and troops food. Maybe after a few years it can be expanded but in the short time the NCR military would need that for food.

4. continued
And when I look at Helios one that's only in a world in which the BOS has agreed, the Rangers have destroyed the robots, the followers have rerouted like you said, and in the mean time you've let highway 93 and the forward deployment supply lines become weaken and made it harder to win against the Legion. All the troops protecting Helios one should be in Novac and on Highway 93. Annexing those places is going to be hard (espeically once you start talking about the Kings) but is a second priotory, the first and most important thing is defeating the Legion. Your last paragraph is good but I still wouldn't put too much hope in dipomacly with the BOS. Like I said if it works out great, then Helios one can provide power and free up troops. But otherwise I'd hedge against it not working.

:toughninja:

2) I'm going to get this out: If it's possible in NV it's possible when talking here and since you can ally NCR with BoS you can't question and say that it isn't impossible. It isn't and it a far better tactic to wiping them out.

You wouldn't have to supply a significant amount of troops to pressure the BoS due to the fact that those already at Helios who would remain stationed there would provide oversight to BoS operations there and as said previously, the BoS would patrol the I-15 between Primm and McCarren.

3)You can't forget House so why say it? He refuses to meet any NCR because of the politics created by Oliver and Kimball, who he does not respect due to their clear priority of taking him out the picture and annexing New Vegas. He has no quarrel with the NCR if they wouldn't keep trying to take him out of the picture. With Archimedes operational as well as an amendment to the Treaty of New Vegas would mean that NCR will not interfere directly with The Strip except for policing NCR citizens as well as not try to annex The Strip. House would be brought back to the bargaining table for survival if anything else

Also the equipment at Black Mountain is outdated and limited compared to the system House has, why use limited equipment that can barely reach Novac let alone the rest of the Mojave when you can barter for operational use of the system House has plus on my list of prioritys, a radio propaganda is nothing compared to actually helping people through power, water and security aid.

4) Unlike you I'd rather have the locals on my side than to rule them with an iron fist, securing a better way of life and one thats moderately safe is far better than letting them get wiped out by the Fiends. Your plan of controlling them instead of working them is why the NCR is disliked by the locals of New Vegas because their current actions show only selfish aims, to help NCR and NCR only. The water distribution to these areas would do more good than hoarding it for the sharecroppers. If you do this in game the NCR does not even notice if you help Westside gain water distribution.

Would you rather control an area where the population was massacred and is resentful for lack of help from the NCR and can't defend itself or feed itself let alone contribute to NCR or one that is grateful, can be an excellent recruiting ground in future years as well as a flourishing farming community that can produce it's food as well as for other areas so they don't have to rely on NCR supplies?

Also, stop trying to poke holes in whether this can happen because if it can happen in the game it can surely happen. A team of 5 Ranger veterans armed with pulse weapons CAN clear Helios easily and if you even mention that they have better important things to do... That's a weak arguement due to

1)Large influx of Ranger Veterans from Baja
2)Power is never a low priority in a post apocalyptic wasteland
3)Super weapon that can 1 hit any target with ease is a clear way to win the war with Legion

Stop questioning that fact; just because you perhaps had a problem with a sentry bot in that tower doesn't mean its impossible. I cleared it out easily in 5 minutes...

Seriously.. the BoS/NCR alliance is a necessity whatever way you look at it for both sides and Elder McNamara was far more up for it than Colonel Moore and since I'd be in charge of NCR her opinion wouldn't matter so yes; don't say its unlikely to happen because it isn't.

So in other words you want to continue Oliver and Moore's failed policies that are the main reason people in Westside, Freeside and North Vegas hate the NCR to begin with. Your policy isn't weakening them....it's making them stronger. Westside has strong defenses, and has even made friends with the Khans...which has the Fiends starting to avoid them. The Kings keep them out of Westside and North Vegas seems to have things well in hand as well. Sooner or later, someone....most likely Anderson or the King...might get the bright idea that the three of them should form a unified front against the Fiends and maybe even take the fight to them. Since apparently Westside helps feed the Khans....they might choose to turn on thier erstwhile customers rather than jeopardize thier food supply. The four of them together could take out the Fiends....and if the Khans move into the South Vegas Ruins and occupy Vault 3 themselves to be nearer thier new allies.....then the NCR will have a big problem.

2. I didn't say it was impossible I said it wasn't likely, and if the whole scenario is that the NCR barely knows what the BOS intentions are. That said I'd still have a full bat. along I-15 when dealing with the BOS. And even IF I didn't need that many troops I bet you you'd get more out of negogations when you nudge that fact into the converison. Like I said, if dipo. works great, but if it doesn't there's no time to waste just drop the hammer on them. Just because something CAN happen doesn't mean it WILL, and you should hedge your bets accordingly.

3.Kill House, the NCR would of done it anyway if the Legion hadn't grown. IF house won't even come to the baragining table I wouldn't even waste the time on him. Why deal with House when you could control Vegas yourself? It doesn't make any logical sense. I know someone is going to say, "But House will take us to space" and to that I reply with a question. Would House been able to upgrade his robots without the courier? If the answer is No (it is) then why would you trust him with the greatest task in human history?

Like I said I'm sure the NCR would easily be able to upgrade the equipment. And you keep "hoping" that all these negogations happen, but if they haven't happened in the past 4 years then I doubt they'd happen now. The reason House won't nego. is because the NCR wants the Dam. I'm not giving up the damn so some despot can bask in his own glory. With out that changing House isn't going to change is radio station for NCR propaganda. He won't even talk to the NCR.

4. I guess we'll have to disagree, I don't see why it still can't become a better farming community AFTER the Milita falls apart. Besides that if the courier couldn't improve relations between the West and the NCR I doubt anything done here would. I say let the weak die and scare the rest to coming home. At the end of the day the slum dwellers want safety and after the second battle that would be possible. Also most of the food they could produce is irrelvent when you add in the tech from Vault 22, who cares about there farming when you have that tech?

About Helios the end of the story is this. Helios is an unnecessary thing to do before the second battle. You keep talking about Arch weapon but honesty you have to have the gun for verison 2, and verison 1 only destroys the plant. That said how the hell would the NCR find that gun? Of course the courier did but I doubt the NCR would go looking through Freeside, for a gun for a operation in a plant they don't even know about! Who in the hell are you going to get to run the place? The followers guy isn't going to activate that weapon (arch 2) for you even if you wanted, in the mean time you don't even have the gun that can shoot the thing. All the while all the troops at Helios ONe could be along 93 and Novac getting ready for the battle helping supply lines etc.

@Tiberius67
Who cares if they hate us for now? They'll thank us later for the fact they all haven't been killed/enslaved by the Legion. And the slums need to be weaker for Annexation anyway.

This is my last post here because I'm just going round in circles and from what it seems you'd just continue the NCR policy and mentality and dig yourself into the ground.

Also House doesn't want the Dam since he already get's the power necessary for The Strip and his operations; his only quarrel with the NCR is they want him dead and to annex the strip. This is Canon and explained by House himself.

Anywho, toodles m'dear.

I think that Helios is too valuable to waste in the long run. Instead of stripping it and destroying it, seal it off or leave a small garrison and use the rest of the troops to finish off the Legion and Brotherhood threat until it's safe to return.

If the NCR take their eyes off HELIOS One, Brotherhood would come and snatch it up. And no one wants that. Brotherhood don't want power to be given to the Mojave. The NCR do. Anyways, the NCR shouldn't forget HELIOS. It would be wise to focus more on power than control.

If I were the leader of the NCR I would send as many people as possible to secure the Boomers support, then get them to bomb Lanius's camp and run my rangers across Hoover Dam to decimate the Legion before they knew what was going on. Then I would take over Cottonwood Cove with as much support from Camp Golf as possible to secure the river and block anyone from the Fort from escaping. From that point on the Fort would be trapped and forced to either surrender or suffer wave after wave of bombing runs from the Boomers until the Legion was weak enough for a full assault. Either way, checkmate NCR.

yah that or just activate all those nice little securitrons below the Fort muahahahahhaa

Securitrons? Where we're going we don't need no securitrons.



I spend too much time watching movies..

i dong really get what your talking about.

if were talking about movies then 3:10 to yuma baby. even better L.A. Confidential.

Back to the Future II when Doc says "Roads? Where we're going we need no roads."

Let's just get back on topic.

lol...yah...i think that would be good. But i do know the movie.

i would walk into the fort... then kill everyone.

what? ive done it before.

oh... i guess ill have to do something with the soldiers.

target practice... i guess.

@arva
I understand I think this thread is just about done. Well good chat ol' boy good chat.