First rule of software development: There's always one more bug. (Addendum: There're probably one hundred more bugs.)

One fact of life for complex software is that there are so many permutations of play and of gaming rigs that it's impossible to test everything much less fix everything. To produce a game that is flaw free you need two things: infinite time and infinite money. Even if "Bethesda" as a collective doesn't want the game to go out, the marketing folks and the accounting folks of Bethesda DO want it out, and the company has to generate cash flow or go under.

That said, there are minimum standards of testing that should be exceeded, not just met. And that said, FNV doesn't seem buggier than Morrowind or Oblivion or FO3, we're just dealing with these bugs NOW and the process of both patching and modding fixes is relatively young. The same bugginess seems to apply to Civlization and Total War and Age of Fillintheblank, and according to forums each in turn is the buggiest game ever. They all crash, and I've long since learned "save early, save often...after I get burned AGAIN." [By the way, the buggiest game of any of these series was Daggerfall. I still have scars.]

Judging by the fact that Bethesda's new Creation engine or whatever is being used for Skyrim it looks as if that'll be the engine FO4 runs on. I for one would be happy with that because clearly Bethesda has the most experience with creating open world next gen RPGs. Whether or not Obsidian has anything to do with it, i don't care.
Either way i have a feeling it'll be a great game and i'm sure Obsidian will make some awesome DLC for FO:NV even if thats the extent of thier Fallout chapter.
:fallout:

It was, but it was really just a numerical value and a title.

I call it Reputation system because it acts like the Reputation System. May not have been a true reputation system but it was better then FO3's nothing.

The Gamebryo engine was always buggy,

Obsidian only had 2 years to develop a game,

Well its not the first time that Obsidian have problems with the Publshers,

Remember KOTOR2??

13 months for develop the game, only 13 months


Now, tell me,

How is that fair???

Also,

Bethesda Softworks does the testing, so, I dont see the point of blaming Obsidian

Obsidian already had the entire game engine, and all objects handed to them from FO3. They should have had plenty of time. Most of the mistakes that appear seem like they would come from a new engine, or major tweaks in an existing one. Also, look at Alpha Protocall. That game was pretty hyped up, and now, you don't ever hear a word about it. (horrable reviews). I do like there work on the story, and I like how they implmented features from the old games. My opinion; FO4 should be made by Beth, but they should bring some of the Obsidian team to help.

Alpha Protocol was an awesome game, all reviewers jumped on a [censored] bandwagon in order to hate on Obsidian for the sake of hating on Obsidian.
And IIRC they were hyping up the game but then they got delayed by Sony and by the time they actually got their game out the hype had died down somewhat.

That's how I feel about Fallout 3 and the people around here.

Honestly, I can't make an opinion on Alpha Protocol as I've never played it, the guidebook made it seem interesting. I've even seeing people bashing AP because it's the 'cool' thing, yet when confronted, they've never even played it. Apparently it's cooler to be a tool and hate on it, than to admit you like it or havent played it.

I've heard some of it's mechanics were kind of clunky though, but again, never played it.

Oh.
Well I spent 800+ hours on Fallout 3 so I certainly enjoyed it "as just another game".
But as a Fallout game I have my reasons to hate on it.
But I don't hate on it for the sake of hating on it.
I hate on it because maybe Bethesda will get FO4 right if we whine enough about how awful of a Fallout game FO3 was.

So I have my own reasons for my hate.
But that doesn't mean I think the game is all bad.
Ignoring the fact that it's a supposed Fallout game and it becomes a really awesome game, grindy, sure, writing isn't the best, sure, game balance is shot to hell, sure, but I still managed to press out 800 hours from it, gotta mean something right?

On the other hand, I don't know about others around here and what their reasons for hating on FO3 is.

Eh, I can't see it as bad. When you know about The Burned Game, there is no other bad Fallout, and I hope to God there is never such a terrible game again. :cryvaultboy:

It seems to be mostly a US thing. Read http://free-pc-guides.com/games/difference-of-opinions-alpha-protocol-eu-vs-us-reviews-whos-right-and-whos-wrong-01928, it's fun and enlightening.

Hmm, interesting..
Hope they do a sequel though.

Hope they do. IIRC, MCA said in one interview that Alpha Protocol 2 is one of his most "wanted to do" things (along with being a lead on a Fallout game). Sadly, though, I seem to remember that Sega stated there will be no sequel to AP.

I remember Alpha Protocol. It was bad on top of bad.

How come? (Use PM.)

Have you played it?

You Kiddin right???

Somehow the phrase, "Beating a Dead Horse" comes to mind as I see this discussion unfold. We all read these discussion/complaints on a daily basis. Perhaps they have gotten all they want and can get out of the franchise. I recall the complaints made about certain aspects of FO3 and the mods that were made to fill in the gaps of the game missed by the developers. All the writing we do on the forums should be considered free customer feedback, free focus group discussions, and free criticism by the fan base themselves and not some random poll. I too ask, was anything learned from the release of FO3? I haven't even made it through the first play, and I do not know if I will...It is a shame...When there is a fourth Fallout made, I will wait for a few months before buying it and read up on what the fans are saying. The gaming experience is supposed to get better, not worse. They were off to a good start with FO3, but this last attempt...Really? By this same length of time, I was probably on my third play through with FO3, this time I don't even think I will finish the game...

Please do not get me wrong, there plenty of really cool aspects of the game that I do enjoy, but as for an overall experience, I would honestly say a far cry from FO3. I am a pretty big fan of the Fallout universe, but this is the first time I am not even interested in any of the DLC. A first..I have never been able to say that before. But in any case, I have plenty of PC games on my list to play so...


:gun:

I somewhat agree. New Vegas is the better RPG, no question, but it is a failure as a sandbox game. And when it comes to replayablity it is just that sandbox aspect that is the hook (for me atleast). Never had too much trouble with bugs, certainly not more than in Fallout 3, it's just the lack of content in the wasteland that bugs me.

As for DLC, depends what kind it will be. Something that expands the wasteland, adding locations and enemies i would be interested, but it seems modders will beat them to that. Separate quests like Dead Money, no. But i may buy the GOTY (or whatever) edition from a Steam Holiday Sale few years from now

I have trouble calling anything with so many "invisible walls", and a third (at least!) of the game map inaccessible, a "sandbox game". My only hope is that the unavailable sections of the wasteland will be opened up and populated with upcoming DLCs. Regardless, I'll be incorporating a few mods once I go through the game a time or two more, just to get rid of the invisible walls and to fix some of the bugginess, if nothing else.

I genuinely couldn't care less about plot holes or game concepts going against cannon, so long as they're not glaring errors, of which I see none. I want a polished game. A relatively bug-free adventure in a post-apocalyptic wasteland that at least vaguely resembles the first two games. In Fallout 3, and in New Vegas, the only recourse I see is to turn to the modding community to remedy my problems. I only ask, "why can't the devs pay attention to what those fine individuals do?" Hell, maybe hire some of them on...a number of them are clearly very talented.

A third of the map is inaccessible?
How?
It's not there.
It would be one thing if there was something behind those invisible walls and they cut it out.
But there isn't anything there, so a part of the map isn't "cut".
Just like how Oblivions or Morrowind's maps aren't "cut".
They're just displayed as something other than a big square border.

So if I made a huge map, massive, but made a third of it inaccessible it stops being big? Not really. The game map is still large and the sandbox elements don't come from being able to walk everywhere ("oh look, more sand") but playing with things. Being in a sandbox, no matter how big the box or fine the sand, is boring without toys. The toys make it, not the box.
I still don't understand what people mean when they talk about the apparently innumerate invisible walls, I've found a whole one (exempting the border of the gameworld and the dam). Yup, just the one and it was tough to get up there (deathclaws make you a climbing GOD at level 2).

Frankly, I have to agree with this. I guess it's one of those things that in an RPG you just automatically expect the world map to be perfectly rectangular - but on closer inspection, I don't see any particular reason why this should be the case. I think the gut reaction of some people is to see those areas around the corners, etc, and think that they should be filled in with content.

But in reality - you only have so many resources available to make a game with. What content is in the game, is the amount they were able to put in it within the development stage's time frame. The only way we were ever going to have "extra" content outside of the current game map's borders, would be if they were to spread out the existing content into those areas. (ie, even if they filled in all the corners and "squared out" the map with places to go and explore - there'd still be the same overall amount of content.)

You've been lucky. The invisible walls are all over the place, honestly.

I've managed to get trapped inside a building you cant access, with no way out but to fast travel.
Tried melee in VATS next to a wall and re-appeared in the building, yet able to see out of the invisable walls but not get through them...

Awesome game, but game designers should ditch the release dates and just release a flawless game when its ready