This. Except I play the 360 version, granted I also ran into a vast majority of game breaking bugs my first playthrough, beat the game on the Yes Man playthrough as that was the only one I could progress in, put the game down content, and didn't play till the next patch without complaints. A game is a game, and having a game as massive as Fallout, you expect these things to happen. I'm just happy I can play it now, course I run into the occasional bug or two, but this is why I am a save nerd. I save at least once every 5 to 10 minutes. Saves you a lot of frustration in the long run. :thumbsup:

Fixed.

Guys i will tell you why FONV is buggy and that is the way it will always be because to be anything else and it would not be Fallout.

The issue is the bugs and sometimes the game seems unstable, fair enough. It seems that sometimes the game just goes crazy and crashes. Now keep in mind this is all a guess on my part but i would have to say it is a darn good one. Now also all of the bugs folks are complaining about in the last 6 plays i will honestly say that i have had no more lockups or CTDs than with any other game in my 15 plus years of PC gaming, this does not excuse it but i only say this to frame it in the propper perspective. A game like Fallout New Vegas with the myriad of ways in which the player is able to resolve game issues creates a problem for developers because they have to pre program solutions for the many different ways the game allows the player to complete a quest. So the developers have to anticipate the many different ways that I want to complete the quest, and now multiply that by a million plus different individuals and that is part of the mess. A quest can be solved by having a high enough skill like explosives, or speech, or barter, or intellect, the list goes on. To bug check that and iron out every issue or course a player would choose is not possible and still have a game that will ever be ready to play before it is obsolete. It is a trade off really.

As a player i have almost unlimited freedom in how i play my character, the game seems to be able to not only absorb my choices but it seems to me that it is reading my mind as i progress having anticipated what my character will do as WE progress through the game. It is that freedom that makes FO so kick ass but it also that freedom that causes problems as well. Any game event triggered by the player approach for example, the event is triggered by the player walking to a certain point. Once on that point the trap is sprung and the game rolls on, but as a player the second time i see the trap i may not go to the same point again having got my ass handed to me or certain people died etc etc. So i cheat a corner, work the angles, position myself differently and i am not where the game thinks i should be, or for that matter i should be. Bang your at the desktop. At this point in time who is to blame, the developer who did not anticipate ALL of the players choices or the player who is not where they should be because they used meta game knowledge to change the straightfoward event into something completely unforseen. Granted oversites do happen but in the end we as players are asking the developer to anticipate our evey choice and design the game around them. It is not possible.

Actually it is possible but to do this the developers would need to change the esence of FONV into something more linear in design. They would need to develop some of the players choices OUT of the game. They would need to simplify the may variables a player can use to progress through the game. They would need to simplify the world and script these events to be consistent every time. They could develop a more stable game that goes A to B to C to D to E to .......X to Y to Z, but that is not Fallout and is not why i play Fallout. I play Fallout, I love Fallout because A to C to B to F to X to Y to T ........ to H to Z also works but that flexibility complicates things for the player but even more so for the developer. They would need to turn Fallout into GTA4, which donot get me wrong GTA4 was a good game, but it is by no means even in the same ballpark as Fallout. Fallout is awesome godlike because each play is as similar or as different to the previous experience as the player chooses where as GTA4 will always be the same no matter how many times you play it. Eventually you will exhaust the different resolutions possible in Fallout, but not today and definately not in one play through. Fallout is a game where it is mandatory for the player to return to find every nugget of content because you have to do things differently in order for those nuggets to be avalable.

I am not an apologist nor am i a shill for Bethesda but i am a big fan. I have been gaming for over 15 years longer if one would like to hear about my Taipan prowess on the old TRS 80s. This does not make me an authority. This does not make me the wise man on the mount. This does not dismiss your problems with the game. All i am is an over 40 cheese dike with a penchant for hot sixy ass kickrers, attempting to frame this issue in perspective. I for one having seen hundreds of games that all look the same at best and atr worst have watched as folks complain themselves right out of an awesome DAO experience into some half assed DA2 the Rise to Power which translates in to DA2 the Cashing in on Brand Loyalty aka the Quest for more money. Not a single word absolves the developer of any culpability there are things that should be fixed, but it could be worse.

Asai

Damn look at J.E. Sawyer tells us stuff.

Tell those people nice job at Camp Forlorn Hope and Freeside. I noticed a huge improvement in those areas, and overall freezing after the latest patch.

I noticed a number of other things it helped with overall.


I never expect games this big to run absolutely perfect, but before the patch 8500kb- 1mb save was almost unplayable for me.

The patch fixed a lot IMO

Really? I wouldn't. Not that I don't want a stable game, I just rather have size and complexity.

Wouldn't in be nice to have both? I have had some stability issues, just crashed twice today. But I still come back :shrug:

Gotcha.
Thanks for the glimpse of everyone's efforts. The game just gets better and better.

Very nice. Crashes and instability are frustrating, but I would tolerate a lot for the trade.

Actually I was not talking about crashes and such at all, they happen in every game and very rarely, even in FNV.

I was talking about bugs on weapon/perk miscalculation(laser rifle beam splitter for example is bugged that way), quests if they are approached differently etc.
For example I was just at Cottonwood Cove, killed everyone but later met Astor who gave me the quest to kill everyone, so the only way to finish the quest was to go to console and resurrect a Legionnaire :brokencomputer: and kill him..
What is especially weird about this is that going to Cottonwood Cove before meeting Astor is far far more likely than the other way around...

I am talking about systematic robust approach to game design where features are designed in such a way to prevent such miscalculations inherently by its design so that manual adjustment is not needed.

Skyrim's getting a shiny new gamebryo engine..with a new name. I certainly hope it's modified and improved enough to warrant a new name but part of me wonders if it's just a marketing thing for those who automatically associate gamebryo with buggy crap.

That's good. Despite being buggy, i (as a player) really like how it does some things. I'm propably the only one :bolt:

But the company that made Gamebryo recently went bankrupt. Does this mean Bethesda owns Gamebryo now? :unsure:

Sawyer, if you ever do come back to this thread, give those guys and gals a congratz from the forums for the Freeside/Forlorn fixes. However, I have one challenge for Obsidian:Fix the quest "I put a Spell on You" in its entirety. This quest has bugged on me 100% of the time, on every possible outcome, making this quest almost outright impossible without doing some ritual dance to pray to the Gamebryo Gods. I find a lot of the bugs in this game for me are triggers rather than random things, ie. "promote hardin, demote McNamara" and it freezes in place.

I do like how mostly everything is open though, and I can just explore the Mojave. I'm not limited to doors and loading areas(except actual locations, such as caves).


I wonder what NV will look like in 6 months. I think Obsidian can refine this game into something awesome. I bet if they do that, more people will come back because not everybody is tolerant to game crashes.

Josh, I have to ask who'll be working on fixing what's wrong with Boone. I'm not happy with things at the moment because this isn't fixed yet and an early patch is what broke him but fixing him didn't happen in the latest patch. There are a number of threads in the Problem report forums but this wasn't addressed. Maybe you have time to do this fix? He just isn't right on my game. I bought both PS3 and PC versions...a lot of money and I'd hope someone would care about fixing this too. Thanks.

"an issue in the VDialogueCraigBooneSCRIPT. There is a section that monitors the player's reputation with the NCR and triggers a force greet if certain conditions are met. The code was causing Boone to evaluate his packages every five seconds even when not required. Two semicolons fixes it. On hindsight, it's pretty obvious what was happening. An EVP will cause an NPC to drop out of combat - holster their weapon. When run constantly, apparently it breaks head tracking in the follow packages also."

http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=38842

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1155751-broken-boone-bugfix/

Both the bugs you just mentioned are flawed based on their structural logic. The former in code, the latter in script/quest. The latter could be more robust were it more linear, but if that's what you want, I don't think you're going to find many supporters. I do think the game could have benefited from a reduced scope, but not at the cost of how the quests can be completed. If we had fewer quests with the same average level of complexity, the quests would be less likely to have logic errors by simple virtue of more testing/bugfixing time devoted to each one.

The beam splitter mod simply has bad logic in code. It's not something that's inherently complex, just a regular ol' bug.


I forwarded those links to Bethesda folks. In the past, every thread I've seen where someone has complained to me about Boone being broken has simply suggested that Boone is broken without articulating what, exactly, the problem is.

It's still a good engine at the core. People thought the little GM V6 was crap in the sixties, little did they know it'd end up lasting 40 years and running at Indy.
Whoops. Wrong forum.

Well is it hard to add a couple more enemies here and there maybe a few more deathclaws and super mutants, at level 35 there isn't so much of a challenge in the mojave

It is,

Thank you, Josh. I've seen posts that company eyes are kept on the forums looking for problems so they can be fixed and as you can see by that link to the Issues forum (PC and PS3 both), I've been posting about this, keeping the report on the front page and almost begging for a fix since January - to the annoyance of some people I'm sure. Boone keeps holstering his weapon during combat with an enemy right in his face shooting him. He also doesn't head-track properly and is more like a zombie. The original Boone wasn't like that at all. The text I quoted in green was from the modder who found the problem in Boone's script.

Now I have my hopes up again that this will be fixed. Thank you for sending it to the people who will do something. They will, right?

I think the games are buggy because they are just so huge. Open world, you can go in any direction. It would be hard for the developers to predict how every player is going to go about the game. That being said, I understand your frustratiion.

I am confused. Why would you view this to be a "bug?" If there's no one to kill, surely you can't get a quest to kill everyone. That would be illogical.

Being locked out of quest because of the choices you make is hardly a bug. I, personally, went to Camp Searchlight before I ever even heard of Cottonwood Cove. I had no issues with that quest.

i read that wiki too and my jaw hit the floor.ive only ever seen maybe 2 or 3 bugs in games before and only had them happen 2 or 3 times max :shocking:

I like Bethesda/Obsidian, just to throw my 2 cents into this. I feel that both organizations have demonstrated an enormous amount of love for the customer. They typically stay relatively in touch with the community, and reading blogs or hearing interviews it shows how much the employees working on the games really want the people to play to enjoy it. You don't get that from most companies, certainly not Electronic Arts. It's all the small things that Beth/Obsidian do to show they genuinely want to put out a good product, and they've been rewarded with massively successful games. I'm super stoked for more NV DLC, and while I'm not an TES fan (I've never played, not into the whole spells and dragons thing) I am definitely stoked for FO4. I'm not afraid to admit there are things I didn't like about NV, but at the core, I find it an enjoyable game-it's certainly the one I play the most-and I enjoy it even more seeing the amount of things that are put in with the sole purpose of trying to please the fans-even if the idea tanks, I can respect that it was done out of a desire to just make the fans happy.


On that note..
Please Please Please.. don't let me down with my encounter with Ulysses, even if means delaying Lonesome Road another month or two. Meeting Graham was underwhelming (please don't take that as criticism-he was a great character and I enjoyed him, I just felt that he didn't get enough screen time nor was our first encounter "epic" enough ) so PLEASE make sure Ulysses blows my mind!