Oh and you forgot to try and disprove the ENCLAVE Vault Research Control and the mentioned Vault Behavioral Programme, it shows that the Enclave had the ability to install monitering equipment in the Vaults and then moniter them from their base, it shows that they had the ability to usurp control and have whatever they wanted installed, it shows that they had the ability to make the Vault's their [censored]es and have no one the wiser, it shows their power and sway over Vault-Tec, it shows that they knew everything about the Vaults and controlled the corporation that was building them.

Funny thing is that I'm not even firing all guns, the US Military had Mariposa as it's primary FEV installation, these Vaults often took several years to build, Mariposa was built in 2277, only a year before the war. So unless your suggesting that Vault 87 just so happened to have all of the right things built into it to accomodate black military research projects for the US to send FEV too at the last minute, then it wouldn't have been already constructed. Mariposa was their chosen location for further testing, it was completed in January 2077, they did their research there. The terminal in the Citadel says that Vault 87 was finished in:

Vault 87
Vault Number...
87
Starting Construction Date...
May 2066
Ending Construction Date...
May 2071

It was finished 4 years before FEV was even created and was still the Pan Immunity Viron; another little tipbit from that ass of a Vault, aparently they were in contact with Mariposa the whole time before the war. All of this is why it is a stupid [censored] Vault.

Also, the oldest Mariposa Super Mutants are about 100 years younger than the oldest Vault 87 Muties.
As in, there's a chance the Mariposa mutants might degenerate into behemoths somewhere down the line, but it won't be for a long while, if it happens at all.

I mean, the only real difference between east and west coast mutants is the art style. Everything else is conjecture. There's more dumb mutants on the east coast, as Fawkes points out, because the dum-dums took control of the Vault and dip contaminated wastelanders instead of "pure" humans (ie Vault Dwellers). If the second generation Super Mutants took control over on the west coast, then there's a good chance the same thing would happen... although there's far more 1st gen mutants on the west than there ever were on the east.

You can call them different strains all you want, but I'd love to find out where it says this in-game. Hell, even a developer quote.

And yes, it stretches disbelief that there's even FEV on the east coast, although I like the explanations given by AgingPunkLegend and Lord Vukodlak.

You can call them different strains all you want, but I'd love to find out where it says this in-game. Hell, even a developer quote.

I'm pretty sure a terminal in Vault 87 points out that it's a different strain. There's also a bigger difference between the two super mutant groups than aesthetics and intelligence, specifically the west coast Super Mutants retain their genders while the east coast mutants do not. If they weren't from different strains, that would be a pretty big continuity error.

There was for some reason a military vault messing around with FEV. Vaults were not for military use. Enclave would have no use for such a Vault. FEV was to only be on the West and was top secret. Bethesda went against canon by adding super mutants.

"It is there game and they can do with it what they want" does not fly with me. Fallout was interplays game and they came out with a game that many people now call the "Burned Game" because it went against canon in so many ways. A game so bad Bethesda won't touch with a ten foot pole :poke:

Lucky for Betheda that is the only thing that really breaks canon besides there being radiation all over DC after 200 years and yet little to no radication in Fallout which is just 84 years after the great war. The other many problems don't technically break canon but are very hard to explain.

Also..
lolwut?
Fallout 3 is one of Bethesda's best selling games and one of their best rated. Your opinion on the issue really doesn't change the fact that..

http://fallout.gamesas.com/eng/links/fallout3-awards.php

.....

He meant Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel
Since he said, you know, that Interplay made it.

What he meant is that Interplay made Fallout 1 and 2, and Bethesda made Fallout 3, and therefore F3-fans bash on F1/2-fans that we are biased to Interplay, but since Interplay also made the worst Fallout game known to Fallout history, so bad that Bethesda won't acknowledge its existance, we can't possibly be that biased to Interplay who made such a crappy, canon-breaking Fallout game. You see, the father of two awesome children can get a crappy child aswell.

.....

He meant Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel
Since he said, you know, that Interplay made it.

What he meant is that Interplay made Fallout 1 and 2, and Bethesda made Fallout 3, and therefore F3-fans bash on F1/2-fans that we are biased to Interplay, but since Interplay also made the worst Fallout game known to Fallout history, so bad that Bethesda won't acknowledge its existance, we can't possibly be that biased to Interplay who made such a crappy, canon-breaking Fallout game. You see, the father of two awesome children can get a crappy child aswell.

As others have said, West Coast FEV was being designed as anti-virus chemical to be given to people.
East Coast FEV was being designed to make soldiers, stronger, smarter, quicker, the works. The mutants keep it running in FO3 in an effort to expand their numbers.

Ah well thank you for correcting me.
Now change your avatar. It's creepy.

From what ive heard, the super mutant behemoths in fallout 3 were the oldest, as they grow larger and oafier over time. So why arent nightkin and other mutants created a long time ago by the master, also super huge?

I'm pretty sure a terminal in Vault 87 points out that it's a different strain.

There's also a bigger difference between the two super mutant groups than aesthetics and intelligence, specifically the west coast Super Mutants retain their genders while the east coast mutants do not. If they weren't from different strains, that would be a pretty big continuity error.

That's impossible, since the west coast mutants didn't exist at the time.



As MadCat221 said, memories of their genders makes a little more sense, since there's certainly no identifying features in any super mutant I've ever seen.

Beyond that, I'm content to call the lack of genitals either a) a lore goof, or b) a retcon, and frankly, I'm content either way. It's not like it's even all that relevant to anything. All that matters is that mutants are sterile. The "how" of it doesn't really matter in the long run.

Marcus can definitely get it on though. So can a certain super mutant in Broken Hills if you lose an armwrestling match . . .
Thing is, Lily is referred to as her and though she doesn't have briasts doesn't mean she doesn't have a [censored]. As has been said, their reproductive organs are well-intact.

EDIT: Oh wow. I'm pretty damn amazed that damn is not censored but the common and accepted term for lady parts is. That's just plain ridiculous.

Again, why does it matter if they have genitals or not?

Who cares whether or not Bethesda changed this one, tiny, tiny piece of lore? How is it even remotely relevant to anything? Both so-called "strains" are well and truly sterile... so why does the "how" matter so much?

It is never said in game, or by a developer, that the two groups of super mutant are in fact different species. Since that's the case, it seems to me that Bethesda intended them to be the same... only one group has more dum-dums than the other.

Because Bethesda's change would alter the nature of super mutants for no real reason and more importantly turn the Master into a complete moron?

"What do you mean my super mutants can't reproduce I mean all that happened when I dipped them was they lost all their reproductive organs... oh."

Well, he didn't know they were sterile, either. What do you expect him to do? Shag every mutant he dips to make sure everything's intact south of the border?

He wasn't an idiot or a [censored], he would check to see, yes. The reason they were sterile wasn't because of the lack of genitals, it was because the FEV-2, while it didn't destroy the organs, viewed gametes like "broken" since they were haploid, and it made them diploid, and therefore sterile.