Ok everyone: this is fallout we're talking about here.. FALLOUT! No one is safe, life isn't fair, you're living amongst the wasteland's most disgusting creatures and does anyone think in such a horrible world there should be some kind of magical safe protection system for its inhabitants? I HOPE NOT!

Yeah sure, there should be some places safer than others, protected by city guards or mercenaries, but in no way should someone be restricted from popping a bullet right between your eyes whenever he wants, even if its just because he doesn't like the look of your ugly mug. Fallout was built on: do what you want, when you want, where you want. Plain and simple, and it's why we loved it.

I don't know if anyone noticed, but the actual fallout today from the original Fallout isn't exactly casting the glow in respect to its masterful "take no shit" origins.

Radiating Charm

No it wasn't. Fallout has always been about an innocent/naive character thrust into a crazy world. You have a job to do, and along the way you learn about humanities struggle for survival.
How you do the job may differ, but you can't finish any of the Fallout games without helping people, doing quests, and generally making the world a better place. Either you change the world, or the world changes you.
In the end your supposed to be the hero.
Anyone who thinks it's just/mainly about running round killing whoever you want needs to sod off back to Quake.

You could choose to do as you suggest or not, and still acquire the skills and power to finish the game either way. The game was founded on maximizing choice: allowing you to play different characters under different mindsets; you never had to be the hero or play by the rules like a good little boy.

Lets also not forget that even the *SPECIAL system was created in place of the *DND system to avoid licensing costs. Which means the vision was to be able to nurture and treat both good and evil natured characters with satisfying gameplay.

Sounds like someone either doesn't like getting owned hard in mmos, only played spinoff titles like fallout: tactics & fallout3, or has a really ugly mug =P

Please go play the original wastelands/f1/f2 to witness the intended growth of the franchise.

Minor correction: SPECIAL was created to replace GURPS, when we lost the GURPS license (or decided to end the contract with SJG, depending on whose point of view you take). SPECIAL had nothing to do with the DND system and it wasn't to avoid licensing costs. We had a disagreement with the GURPS license holder and lawyers got involved. The dev team loved GURPS and wanted to see it used.

pax,
-Chris

ah that's right! i couldn't remember what it was called =P why do ridiculous laws have to get into the way of creative ingenuity and innovations so often? Can't we just open up a shop in New Zealand or out in international waters to avoid all this licensing nonsense hehe

Hell yeah, gamesas and all other companies prefering in making "art" over "money" should move their asses to an island in the middle of Pacific Ocean and create an own Nation... Lets call it Black Isle. And reduce all that license bullshit by limiting to international laws which would be ofcourse made up by the Nation itself in name of protecting national intrest! Hell yeah



I agree. At least with that it was a major part that made the game, for me at least. The Choice and the Consequence is nothing if you dont have the choice of doing what the hell you want, right? The Sarmatians

While that works for the single-player experience of Fallout, it cannot be the same for this. Not everybody gets to be the Vault Dweller. Hell, I doubt any player will get to be somebody who came from a vault. It would defeat the purpose of wasteland survival if everybody was a vault-child hero.

I must object, and agree with the statement of OP. Safety is only an illusion which can be washed away by the wastes at any moment.

This is sort of true. You could always pull out your gun and cap someone if you wanted. However there are always consequences, and those usually prevented people from just


I hope they keep the freedom to choose, but I also hope they keep the stiff penalties associated with it. For instance, entire towns would turn against you in FO1 if you just decided to cap someone, and thats how it should be, because to survive in the wastes, you must depend on other people, no one can do it alone (except the vault dweller, but we aren't him are we(unless your playing FO1)). *The first time I saw a Deathclaw...well, now that's a story for a different day.*

Minor correction: SPECIAL was created to replace GURPS, when we lost the GURPS license (or decided to end the contract with SJG, depending on whose point of view you take). SPECIAL had nothing to do with the DND system and it wasn't to avoid licensing costs. We had a disagreement with the GURPS license holder and lawyers got involved. The dev team loved GURPS and wanted to see it used.

pax,
-Chris

to expand on this as i don't work for a game company that needs to maintain its image and avoid lawsuits for slander ( thus i can say what ever the hell i want to ): the hippie who owned the GRUPS license didn't like the opening movie and cried .... hay, "OC" ..... i got something for ya right here! _|_ (^.^) _|_


"MMO-RPG" = "Mass Market Oriented - Repetitive Profit Genera"
- damned things still svcked me in ...

Oh I know you guys did cause I remember learning about this long ago and then one day looking it up on youtube and actually found a promo of Fallout : A GURPS Post Nuclear Adventure. It looked absolutely amazing!

Here is the video by the way everyone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzm27Lr8eAo
I told the Overseer of Vault 13 I'd give everything to save everyone, and so I did, I saved them all. Since then I've felt loneliness.

No it wasn't. Fallout has always been about an innocent/naive character thrust into a crazy world. You have a job to do, and along the way you learn about humanities struggle for survival.
How you do the job may differ, but you can't finish any of the Fallout games without helping people, doing quests, and generally making the world a better place. Either you change the world, or the world changes you.
In the end your supposed to be the hero.

tell me then; why is it possible to kill everyone OR no one in the game and complete it ?

you can do all the quests in all the town and then massacre them all if you like. fallout is completely customizable to the players whims.
Try and tell my Power armor + Power fist wielding psycho that he is " innocent " he'll tell you how he murdered shady sands ( or Klamath ) the second he arrived, crush your skull in and take your stims.

Do you know that a Vault dweller is innocent or naive ? no, you cant tell me the behavior of MY vault dweller, because he is exactly that, Mine. my interpretation of the right choice, or the most beneficial action according to my chosen character type. The second someone left the vault they easily could have legged it to the nearest brothel and spend the rest of there days in some kind of sixual fantasy or robbed the first person they came across and started a raider/slaver clan until a water chip came to them.

You cant categorically refuse any chance of variation in the reaction to someone leaving the only place they have ever known into a vast desolate wasteland where the right opportunity can change anyones situation completely forever.

I think THAT is a more realistic view of the basis of fallout . Put another way, Choice. One day, i will make millions. On that day i will buy the rights to every thing fallout off Bethesda and give it to gamesas for free.

But, you can't just massacre them without doing the quests. Being a single-player game you HAVE to save the vault /stop the mutant army / find the GECK / stop the Enclave or you lose.

Do you know that a Vault dweller is innocent or naive ? no,

yes.
na·ive or na·?ve (n-v, n?-) also na·if or na·?f (n-f, n?-)
adj.
1. Lacking worldly experience and understanding, especially:

When you step out of the vault for the first time, you have no idea what the wasteland is like.

you cant tell me the behavior of MY vault dweller, because he is exactly that, Mine. my interpretation of the right choice, or the most beneficial action according to my chosen character type.

No argument there.

You cant categorically refuse any chance of variation in the reaction to someone leaving the only place they have ever known into a vast desolate wasteland where the right opportunity can change anyones situation completely forever.
I think THAT is a more realistic view of the basis of fallout . Put another way, Choice.

Absolutley. The great thing about these games was choice, not "Player Vs. Player: Fallout's Original Glory". I haven't PvP'd in Fallout in the 6 years I've played it.
Saying Fallout online 'must' be PVP FFA is taking away that very choice. All I'm trying (badly it seems) to say is there should be options to play how you want. I don't want a happy shiny game, but a non-pvp/ less violent game style should be as valid lore-wise (and playable) as any other. I hope.

The great thing about these games was choice, not "Player Vs. Player: Fallout's Original Glory". I haven't PvP'd in Fallout in the 6 years I've played it. by Azkadellia

The only difference you're going to find with ffa pvp is that we will be those supermutants who come and kill you instead of ai scripts doing it. In the end it makes a pretty big difference in production having to have 2 servers with 2 different sets of pvp rule systems just to cater to 2 different types of players: those seeking as much realism out of a fantasy theme, and those seeking exagerated fantasy while already submerged in fantasy to begin with. If we're gona go with fantasy on fantasy then I want there to be jetpacks and i want my pipboy to be able to dispense french fries and dr.pepper instead of having to loot the wastes for nuke cola and iguana bits.

Also, lets look at how an mmo is designed to pay the bills: There can be no ending where u are the hero like the original fallout because then you stop playing/paying your monthly. Which means if you want to be the hero or villain, it's acheived through reputation that you have to continuously maintain with the other players in game. A good way to to acheive this is by implementing a pvp stats system that incorporates karma into the build: For every player you kill who is flagged as a killer with bad karma(red or black named i would imagine) you gain karma and pvp stat (maybe even a nice drop if you're lucky?), and same the other way around obviously. Oh, and for those players who don't like losing their gear to other players (as observed in ridiculous pop title:world of warcraft) we could have some kind of extremely expensive surgical graphing procedure that binds item/gear to player rendering it undroppable..

The only difference you're going to find with ffa pvp is that we will be those supermutants who come and kill you instead of ai scripts doing it. In the end it makes a pretty big difference in production having to have 2 servers with 2 different sets of pvp rule systems just to cater to 2 different types of players: those seeking as much realism out of a fantasy theme, and those seeking exagerated fantasy while already submerged in fantasy to begin with. If we're gona go with fantasy on fantasy then I want there to be jetpacks and i want my pipboy to be able to dispense french fries and dr.pepper instead of having to loot the wastes for nuke cola and iguana bits.

Also, lets look at how an mmo is designed to pay the bills: There can be no ending where u are the hero like the original fallout because then you stop playing/paying your monthly. Which means if you want to be the hero or villain, it's acheived through reputation that you have to continuously maintain with the other players in game. A good way to to acheive this is by implementing a pvp stats system that incorporates karma into the build: For every player you kill who is flagged as a killer with bad karma(red or black named i would imagine) you gain karma and pvp stat (maybe even a nice drop if you're lucky?), and same the other way around obviously. Oh, and for those players who don't like losing their gear to other players (as observed in ridiculous pop title:world of warcraft) we could have some kind of extremely expensive surgical graphing procedure that binds item/gear to player rendering it undroppable..

Good points in your second paragraph, however there needs to be some sort of "event" that needs to happen to make people feel like a hero or villian, or else stick with some little quests (but I'm not saying they're bad at all). That's a good way to show karma, should there be some changes in clothes/skin? I think I really don't want to accidentally kill any player or NPC, we should be able to revive them if we have the perk/skill, right? Good idea! I don't want to lose my stuff, but I can still drop them, right?

Nothing before or since has ever made me laugh as hard as I laughed when I created a character in FO2 with an intelligence of 1. The dialogue options were outrageously funny. Another example of how the Fallout series was capable of turning a comedic eye in on itself with a sense of both humility and pride. -- it’s an obsession. Not a cologne, either. Some think that the way it changes a person’s life is tragic, but they just don’t understand. - Wooz

Unless there is some limitation on PvP there will always be griefers that play the game to ruin it for everyone else. In many PvP games that limitaion is faction, two sides that have safe areas that they control. Since we should not have to belong to one of two factions it is better to make PvP optional. This could be with flagging yourself for PvP with a countdown before the flag start to take away advantage of being flagged when attacking. If one want to PvP now one have to go around flagged or one could not partake in PvP.

Alternetive is always to have two type of servers and having all flaggs on one type of server always set to PvP. Then everyone could get what they want. That way those that want to be griefed could go to a PvP-server.

I agree, and I think that the alternative (2 types of servers, one with all PVP flags and the other
where players can go without having to deal with the griefers) should be implimented.

A Question ?


How is death of a player going to be handled ?

I hope there isn't going to be some kind scrolls of ressurection and sh*t...

I think it'd be pretty cool if when you die, you wake up in a pile of bodies (in the nearest town) laying motionless and face down for 2 minutes as you take the moment to notice that your rotting corpse has mutated slightly into that of a ghoul. You pull yourself up, and need to make your way to the local doc to have the mutation effects reversed (visible mutation into skinny weak ghoul, and all stats dropped by 50% until local doctor has patched u up good'n'proper (for a fee based on your level). Perhaps even a player with a high enough doctor/medic skill can fix you up.