Fallout 2 had too much raunch (sixual references / actions / &c.). I would not purchase a game with similar content today. When I was younger, such as when Fallout 2 came out, I had fewer scruples; as a parent, I am fiercely protective of my children's best interests, and I will not permit certain types of influences in the home. My gaming dollars do not go to games with sixual content. If you view sixual content as being a selling point for games, just consider you're in direct competition with porm, which is cheaper and more potent.

Okay, what? Fallout 2 has burning man through to explosive death scenes and is based around killing (well unless you tag speech) yet six is the point that kids need to be protected from within it? What about the drugs? I can garuntee you that your child will, if he/she grows up as a normal human being (failing they're asixual etc.) they'll talk about and be involved in six. I believe that when I become a parent I would like to think my child isn't going to have to shoot Russians or take steriods then fight neo nazis in a dark alley. Why would you prefer this being portrayed than a bit of slap and tickle (in very censored terms)?

I have 2 kids, I would rather my kids make love over smash in peoples heads. It's just an opinion mind you, but we have them. We could rant on and on about which is moralisticly better. In the end that chioce isn't in the hands of producers, but the parents. If you feel that being friendly and mentally healthy in regards about self esterm is less important than violence is ok. Whatever, but I believe there are far more countries out there that have sided to censor violence over six.

Lock?

I miss the days of exploding people. six is just a wasted effort in most games because you can get more through Google. On the other hand, blowing people up by sabotaging them with a timed explosive or simply firing at them with a rocket launcher is so much more satisfying.

I mean really, one of the big reasons why Diablo 3 looks so fantastic is because of the gory content that they displayed in the trailer. Titan Quest looks positively tame with its complete lack of blood... and boring. An original gamesas fan, also known as Sol Invictus and Exitium. Currently running Hellforge, an original Diablo III community.

I loved that aspect in Red Faction, sticking a timed explosive on a guy and then watch him running around before the blast.

Strangely, this point is still lost on many people.

Oye blaming game developers for violence/six/drugs in a video game is like blaming gravity that your wife 'fell' on your neighbors dike....(You get the point)
You dont want your kids to be exposed to the violence/six/drug use in a video game...fine. Parental controls.
Dont blame the dev's...be proactive about it.
(I am not saying violence/six/drugs in games is good, just put the blame where it is deserved...On lazy fvcking parents).
I am not a parent myself, so lets get that out of the way.
But i do have 2 nephews and a few close friends whom have kids.
Here are some ideas...

You as an advlt want to play a violence,six filled, drug abusing video game...but you dont want your kid (Fair enough, your choice as a parent) to be exposed to it.
Here are some ideas....
1)Computer: passwords
2)Computer: Train your kid NOT to touch your computer
3)Computer: Biometric (Fingerprint) scanner password. Some kids are smart enough to crack passwords.
They cant crack this.
4)Computer: Dont leave the shortcut to the game on the desktop. Put it in a hidden/password protected
folder.
5)Computer: Lock the DISKs in a CD/DVD Caddy that has a lock (They cost under 20 bucks)
6)Console: Lock the DISKS in a CD/DVD Caddy/Drawer.
7)Console: Put the controllers outside of their reach/remove batteries from them.
8)Console: Train them to play THEIR games and not to touch YOUR game. IE: Assume some fvcking responsibility.

I really do get tired of parents whinning about the violence/six/drug use in a game. It sells, its business, so shove it. Here's an idea, get some responsibility over the raising of your kid and find a happy middle ground between not buying and otherwise insulting a game and buying it and then taking responsible steps to protect your children. Meh. Rant over.

By the way, this is mostly just a targetless rant on the topic thanks to the quote Hidden Assassin posted.
It really irks me when parents dont take responsibility.

I actually a friend ask me to babysit his kid so he and his wife could go out to dinner ALONE. I said sure. Shortly before they showed up they asked if their son's friend could come too, sure why not (I enjoy kids. THey are so..simple in the terms of LACK of drama). This..friend's mom came to pick him up after the playdate, my friend was still out to dinner. This mother went NUTS. Why? She saw that I was a gamer (I have a poster for EVE Online, Fallout 3, Soul Caliber IV, and COD4 on my office's walls (My wife refers to it as my 'gaming den')). She started insulting me about exposing her kid to violence, six, etc.
Oddly enough...the entire time the two kids were at my place..we put together a puzzle...of a 60's Dodge Charger(A gift to my friend's son..whom i am the godfather of).
I finally told the woman to get the fvck out of my place or id have her ass tresspassed.
Just because you are a failure as a parent (Refering to the bich mother I am refering to here), do not assume everyone is a failure in taking care of kids.

Meh ok NOW rant over.

Can we get a lock plz?

Hey guess what. I do have 2 kids. And I totally agree. gamesas is not my babysitter, the tv is not my babysitter. It is not their responsibility to raise my child with my values. If I can't raise my child the way I see fit, then maybe I don't deserve to raise them. So I will raise my child the way I want to and I will decide what they can and can't do.

(Personal thoughts here, doesn't represent gamesas, yadda-yadda.)

My kids hate me because I make them pay attention to the rating of a game. They can play any E game they want, they have to ask me about T games (but I usually give permission) and they can't play M rated games (with a few exceptions that we've had long talks about before and during.)

I busted my son after I caught him playing Halo 3 without permission thanks to the Xbox Live Achievements page letting me see what he has been playing. ^_^

Basically, as a developer, we design games for a target audience under the expectation that parents will be monitoring what their children play. We do not design M rated games for teens and younger. I'm not living in some fantasy land where kids never play M rated games, but the system only works when all participants actually participate, ya know?

I don't understand what makes naked flesh so repellent to so many advlts in the USA, however. It's equally balanced by Europe's (general) hatred against violence. I'd prefer that it be somewhere in the middle for both territories. I do have a line that I am not willing to cross as a developer. I also feel that the rating system for games is out of whack with what you see on TV and in the movies.

pax,
-Chris

Wow, I havnt seen those names in a long time!

I'm glad that both of us can agree that video games can lead to child/teen violence. Yes, I am in fact being sarcastic

I would appreciate it if you didn't put words into my mouth.

I just said we make games for advlts. It's up to parents to participate in the rating system.

I never said anything about video games leading to child/teen violence.

I think the reasons for child/teen violence go way beyond video games. Any simplistic cause-and-effect statement like that is detrimental to the discussion.

pax,
-Chris

I was 10 when Soldier of Forune was released (this is 18+ game If I remember correctly)
When my father was at work I was always playing it and I don't think im badda boy who wanna kill everyone now. It all depends from our behaviour. Kids after watching superman may think that they can fly
and they jump off the window. Another one can shoot some1 by their's father gun beacouse they saw it in game. Is that games fault? Another one will never think about such a stupid thing.
And no1 can tell that this is beacouse of game/film etc. It is beacouse of kids stupidity (or maybe their parents).

Mature players want games with violance etc (like all WWII FPS) But they won't it for their kids.
And now another thing. Why the hell 8 years old kid want play on PC/ X BOX or PS2/3 ?
Go play Legos or cycle with friends or play guitar. Why he have to start playing games when he is so young.
Examples:
<-- poor no real life kid
<--- normal guy who like to play games (maybe not normal cuz probably he is pr0)

Okay I don;t think that everyone understand it beacouse my english is bad and im extreamy tired.

"mature gamers want games with violence"? are you sure about that. That's not true at all. gamers want certain types of games. Some of the types include violence or six. That has no implication that "mature" gamers want violence or mature games are violent.

I'm 32 years old. Some of the best games I have played all year have been. Boom Blox, World of Goo, Mount & Blade. 2/3 of those games are not violent.

What "mature gamers" want. Are games they enjoy. This is irrelenvent of violence. Classifying that mature games are violent in nature is an insult to people who enjoy games regardless of age.

Personally in my opinion. I find that the this "I'm mature I want violence" Is more a teenage personality that thinks they are older. Much like little children playing house. It's a mislead perspective. So what about those advlts that like violence. Well some of them find that the game style suit there tasts. In other cases advlts can and are mentally not "mature". Being older does not make you wiser.

I will stand by my earlier statement. It's the parents responsibiltites to educate their children. If a child sees somethign on Media then plays out vastly dangerous act. Like climbing into the sewers. Is it the shows fault. Or that the parents didn't talk to the children about the hazards of going into sewers and had no idea that this was being shown to the children. These parents may not have bothered activly participating with the kids life and importantly exposure.

If my daughter liked a particular play style of game. Then I will talk about some of the content that may be alien, new or dangerous.

hmm I think I'm repeating myself. Anyways. I've said all on my mind.

I'm in complete agreement with Chris about the ratings system - it is nothing to do with the developer or publisher if a parent ignores the age warnings on their products.

However, I am glad that there are games out there with sixual content in them (amongst other mature themes), assuming there is a choice. The more choice the better, I always think. When playing a game that has sixual content, I'd not feel comfortable actually playing through that content, however, what I do apprechiate is that the people who made the game thought of it, put it in, and let me choose.

The Fallout series is a good example of that - there are several places in those games where you may have six with a character (if I am not mistaken) and that just reinforced the atmosphere of the game, by adressing six when other games wont.

Which is why there are games made for advlts and games made for children. Now, I'm old enough to play Mature games, but I wasn't always - my father still allowed me to play mature games as he felt that I was suitably mature to handle the content of the games. Some children might not have been. This is how the ratings system works, and I think it is a sad day when a developer has to tone done on the mature themes of a game in order to reach a rating they would prefer.

Something silly like turning morphine into Med-X (as in the Australian Fallout3 debacle) is not ideal, but is aceptable. Turning all the stims into generic med packs would not be.

(Not that I'm pointing fingers in anyones direction).

To draw conclusions like this is plain stupidity,



IMO this is bollocks, the argument is based on intellectual stimulation causing aggression in adolescents. The first problem comes from the Assumption. It's not based on fact. They are trying to base it on previous studies, but the studies don't actually lead to the assumption!

Lets discard this for now, the above study consisted of 204 pupils each with unique situations each with unique personalities. In order to make any scientific conclusion one must have sound knowledge on all the factors that lead to the result. With so many unknowns in this "controlled" study the basis for the conclusion was horrendous, for example;

was the child mal-nourished,
was the child exposed to excessive loud music,
was the child fatigued.
Etc, etc, etc

However for argument sake, let’s say all pupils where exactly the same for the duration of this study. And let's assume that 102 out of the 204 where on the computer but not playing games at the time in order to controll this study.
Now let’s break down in simplified terms exactly what happens when we play at any type of game.

We are engaged with the game, in some cases we are in another world, we are Romans defending the western front from oncoming barbarians. We are a thug’s robbing people and stealing cars, we are imagination. Games are unique in the sense that they open the imagination of the player. They enable us to given in to our desires, to do the otherwise impossible; it is curiosity that drives us.

Curiosity is part of who we are, without curiosity we wouldn’t be living the luxurious life we are in right now. Whilst i agree that some content may not be appropriate for adolescents, it is a parental responsibility to ensure such content is not viewed. As with any media content in life, MA movies, offensive music, etc, etc.

Hence the reason for classifications
( i dont mean to offend just my 2 cents )

I wonder if aggresive sports game tend to bring out aggression in people in general. I would think that aggressive stimulai is agressive stimulai regardless of source.

When can everyone stop blaming the stupid shit ppl do on games if somone goes out and shoots somone else in the face its because they where fvcked up in the first place not because the evil video games told them to do it gaming companys shouldent have to watch out for other ppls kids if the game is rated M its for a reason dont give it to your kids and then complain about the content. When i was younger my dad used to let me buy M rated games because he knew i was mature enough to discern between whats in a game and real life and that the two are completely seperate things.

I often think how silly people can get over games and ratings, mainly because yes i was probably about 12 when i first played fallout 1, My parents were pretty lax when it came to restricting me and nothing really happened, It just turned me into a fallout nut, I haven't killed that many people since playing the series so i figure whats the harm right? Well i feel the answer is: probably not half as much as the media would have you believe but the problem with violent themes is they have different effects on different people. The general media would have us believe that teenagers are blank slates in which video games engrave their violence like a jug being filled with water. The problem with this theory is humans (sometimes) have morals, when i played fallout as a child I wasnt keen on violence but i enjoyed the combat but stuck to a more speech/diplomatic route handing out justice in the wastes as i went, always helping the npcs in need ect ect.
Funnily enough in real life i didn't join a church to spread the word of peach hehe, what im getting at is the game didnt rub off on me in a violent I need to kill people to watch them explode kind of way, which leads me to this point: I know or have known people that seriously get off on watching people explode in games, but this was not something they picked up during the game, they had this violent tendency before the game even came about, what i believe to be the case is, games do not make non violent people violent, violent people who play games are attracted to violent games, if these games were banned they would focus It in some other medium. Thats all i have to say about violence and games, theres a lot more to be said about excessive gaming and anti socialism, but thats not whats being talked about hehe i tend to yarn a lot.

One thing I tend to notice is parents are clamping down on their kinds gaming choice these days, I liked Chris' method of compromise, but all you parents who game need to remember what these games mean to your kids and what games meant to you, can you imagine being denied fallout,wasteland, diablo, or any other must play games just because of a rating? To be the only one at school to not have played that new game used to be traumatizing for some kids in my school hehe although i bet theyll laugh about it now.

Parents should and do have the rights to control what their kids watch and play and as long as that stands in place without the need for censorship within games then that is a fine system, but we must remember its doubtful that any sane child who plays a game isnt going to be captivated into a life of crime.
Thats just my opinion, if you think im wrong tell me and share your opinions, this is a topic that will go on for decades unsolved

[quote="Vactet"]Oye blaming game developers for violence/six/drugs in a video game is like blaming gravity that your wife 'fell' on your neighbors dike....(You get the point)
You dont want your kids to be exposed to the violence/six/drug use in a video game...fine. Parental controls.
Dont blame the dev's...be proactive about it.
(I am not saying violence/six/drugs in games is good, just put the blame where it is deserved...On lazy fvcking parents).
I am not a parent myself, so lets get that out of the way.
But i do have 2 nephews and a few close friends whom have kids.
Here are some ideas...

You as an advlt want to play a violence,six filled, drug abusing video game...but you dont want your kid (Fair enough, your choice as a parent) to be exposed to it.
Here are some ideas....
1)Computer: passwords
2)Computer: Train your kid NOT to touch your computer
3)Computer: Biometric (Fingerprint) scanner password. Some kids are smart enough to crack passwords.
They cant crack this.
4)Computer: Dont leave the shortcut to the game on the desktop. Put it in a hidden/password protected
folder.
5)Computer: Lock the DISKs in a CD/DVD Caddy that has a lock (They cost under 20 bucks)
6)Console: Lock the DISKS in a CD/DVD Caddy/Drawer.
7)Console: Put the controllers outside of their reach/remove batteries from them.
8)Console: Train them to play THEIR games and not to touch YOUR game. IE: Assume some fvcking responsibility.

I really do get tired of parents whinning about the violence/six/drug use in a game. It sells, its business, so shove it. Here's an idea, get some responsibility over the raising of your kid and find a happy middle ground between not buying and otherwise insulting a game and buying it and then taking responsible steps to protect your children. Meh. Rant over.

By the way, this is mostly just a targetless rant on the topic thanks to the quote Hidden Assassin posted.
It really irks me when parents dont take responsibility.

I actually a friend ask me to babysit his kid so he and his wife could go out to dinner ALONE. I said sure. Shortly before they showed up they asked if their son's friend could come too, sure why not (I enjoy kids. THey are so..simple in the terms of LACK of drama). This..friend's mom came to pick him up after the playdate, my friend was still out to dinner. This mother went NUTS. Why? She saw that I was a gamer (I have a poster for EVE Online, Fallout 3, Soul Caliber IV, and COD4 on my office's walls (My wife refers to it as my 'gaming den')). She started insulting me about exposing her kid to violence, six, etc.
Oddly enough...the entire time the two kids were at my place..we put together a puzzle...of a 60's Dodge Charger(A gift to my friend's son..whom i am the godfather of).
I finally told the woman to get the fvck out of my place or id have her ass tresspassed.
Just because you are a failure as a parent (Refering to the bich mother I am refering to here), do not assume everyone is a failure in taking care of kids.

You know what? The gamesare out of power and influence on people′s minds only when those people are cool AND responsible and mature. The latter may be what you are,... not too much.
And you′re not really being a gentleman in these texts. So sorry to be the first to tell you,..., but then again... I`M NOT!

Some people are just ignorant, when their son goes off to kill people after playing a game I presume they'd love to have something nice to blame it on rather than face the facts, that either a) your son has deep mental issues, b) you've given your child no grounds on reality to the point were they are influenced in the wrong way by a piece of fiction or one of the many other letters in this series mainly relating to bad parenting.

Personally I had quite the reverse experience, games taught me to read, and in the case of the C64, taught me to spell and type, a lot of the earlier games taught good morals, final fantasy told us to play the good guy and try make things right, actually many games followed that ''goodies vs baddies' theme, frogger taught us the issues of road safety and super smash tv taught us that gratuitous violence was wrong unless it depended on large cash prizes, a fact I may say still holds up to the day!

You know a lot of these issues with kids and video games may be cleared up if we say, i don't know make up some kind of rating systems for these games, I know this sounds crazy but try and follow me on this. and maybe we could say, enforce it by law? So children cant buy these games that are our of their rating reach maybe?