Hey guys, i am a big fan of well, torrents and i was wondering what you guys thought of them and what do you download?

Recently: Republic commando, GTA san andreas and Starcraft+Brood wars
Give us a D4 beta

Posting about what games you've recently pirated on a software developers forum probably isn't the wisest thing you've ever done.

On topic: I think bit torrent, as a protocol, is a great idea. It's too bad so many are using the tech for copyright infringement, and thus making governments around the world think P2P technology itself should be illegal. There are numerous legit applications, and bit torrent is an excellent way to decentralize information and take stress off of the single ftp server model of acquiring data.

Discussion of how to pirate or links to pirated software is against board policy.

Discussion of about the morality of pirating will be dubiously tolerated.

Discussion of what you recently pirated and how much you're enjoying your warez will encourage the use of the Suspension-Stick.

Enjoy! ^_^

pax,
-Chris

As a general rule, my opinion on piracy is "People do it because they can. There are no excuses." However, being morally absent, I really couldn't care whether people do it or not (although I would prefer people did not do it so PC developers couldn't use piracy as an excuse for poor sales of their bad games). I just really hate it when they try to justify their actions.

I should point out I've never pirated myself, and never plan to. A massive thank you to EA for:
- Producing great quality games time and time again
- Providing excellent technical support
- Never destroying any highly acclaimed studios for profit
- Never ripping people off
- Never wasting people's time

Seriously, what can anyone do? For all anyone knows, i could be some little kid on here just talking about warez and crap only to seem "cool". Pissh, im a good person, I have never illegaly downloaded games before.

oh and seriously, I am going to BUY Descent 4 if it comes out ever. To me, thats a game worth $30 or however much. gamesas has to be the only company i have respect for aside from bungie
Give us a D4 beta

I love the fact of how someone mentions a protocol the first thing that comes to mind is pirating haha! Come on folks this guy just asked what you guys think of the protocol and what you are downloading (you know torrents are legal too ) So here is my input...

Torrents are a godsend! When downloading such as a Linux distro it is very nice to be able to download the DVD ISO in less than 30 mins rather than waiting an hour or two from a bogged server. Torrent is a great way too get software out the door which many companies have jumped on. I'm not talking pirating here but the fact of buying the program and the company emails you the torrent link to download.

So yeah pirating is a big problem with torrents but then again so was VHS before it became a standard by Hollywood

Take Care Everyone!
I told the Overseer of Vault 13 I'd give everything to save everyone, and so I did, I saved them all. Since then I've felt loneliness.

Oops I missed the last line there. Now I see where the pirating part is coming
I told the Overseer of Vault 13 I'd give everything to save everyone, and so I did, I saved them all. Since then I've felt loneliness.

I use torrents for patches, video codexs and updates to Open GL exclusively. When people do not respect the work of others, they are obviously incapable of respecting themselves. Stealing movies, songs and video games is just wrong. Mmm k?
If it was legal, I would only use it to download old movies that kick ass for the Lord, such as Rolling Vengeance, Howling, Wolfen and Dead Alive. Mmm k? - Only cowards hide behind monikers.

I wasn't suggesting that the FBI was going to come knocking (hey it's only wrong if you get caught right!?) , merely that posting about how much you love pirating games on a game developers forum would get you banned in most places.



The whole "stealing" argument in discussions about software piracy irks me a bit. If you saw a corvette on the street and snapped your fingers and a duplicate corvette appeared, would driving away in the new one be stealing? I'm not suggesting that piracy is moral or anything along those lines, but it's definitely not "stealing" in any sense of the word.

As far as music goes, torrents and p2p tech has left me very optimistic. The market has changed and the dinosaur record companies have failed to keep up. As a musician it's very encouraging to know that in my tiny apartment, with a very small amount of equipment, I could produce and record a song and have worldwide distribution at my fingertips via torrents, p2p, and youtube. Distribution is the only reason the big five record companies exist and have been able to exploit musicians for the past few decades. I think we're on the verge of seeing a resurgence of bands that can actually perform their music live as opposed to the chincy engineered pop songs that have been shoveled into our ears for so long now.

I'm also hopeful about seeing the idea of torrent-like decentralized data being applied to other areas of the interwebs. Like web hosting for instance. A "torrented" website could be seeded by people all around the globe, and would ensure that sites various governments would love to see squelched (such as http://www.wikileaks.org) would be unstoppable. Develop encrypted torrent-tech web hosting and it would leave countries that try to control what data their denizens have access to powerless.



That kung fu preacher from Dead Alive is awesome man. Nothing can compare to a priest saying, "I kick ass for the lord!" and then stomping some zombies. Greatest B-movie moment ever.

Good point made above but downloading copies of a program, movie, game, or whatever it may be can be considered stealing if under the condition of you didn't pay for it (that is if it had a price to pay in the beginning). Now this really gets into very confusing situations cause I remember when folks used to say they had the right to make a copy of their video games. Well actually it depends on the copyright from the company.

Some may say you can and some will say no. The fact of that matter is, using the corvette anology here too, is that if you originally drive a corvette and then it breaks down does that entitle you to another brand spanking new corvette for free? Of course not! Would be great though! If you were entitled to get a new one (to get a copy) you are taking away a sale from the company. Can't make a dollar if someone is copying it for free!

The thing is too is even though you "snap your finger" and make a copy does not take away the fact that its still property owned by the originating company and thus is their ideals, a license for them to say what happens to it all. But then again not all companies say you cant make a copy even if you own the original. You just have to read the fine print.

For an example a major misconception is such as the operating system Windows XP and Vista. It is actually legal to give out a copy of the OS. I can make a copy of either or and give it to a cop if I wanted. EULA from Microsoft states this. As long as it is not given with a CD Key being that the software installs with a 30 day trial.

Remember Shareware games? Same principal.

I hope I have cleared up some of the confusion and hopefully not made it worse
I told the Overseer of Vault 13 I'd give everything to save everyone, and so I did, I saved them all. Since then I've felt loneliness.

The entire reason many companies get annoyed at piracy is not because you have stolen the game (okay, some might) but rather because you have not given the company any money for what is their game. What you are doing is depriving the company of profits they could have made from the game by pirating.

It's not stealing, but is reffered to something along those lines in the law. A major problem is that the laws of countries really need to begin to adapt to this problem, and fast. Otherwise stuff like DRM will only get worse, or we may see PC gaming phase out forever (or, at least, not be anyway near as popular as it once was). A massive thank you to EA for:
- Producing great quality games time and time again
- Providing excellent technical support
- Never destroying any highly acclaimed studios for profit
- Never ripping people off
- Never wasting people's time

Stealing : to take surreptitiously or without permission.

So yeah pirating is stealing no matter how people like to say its not to clear their conscience.

For the poster above me, I think you are meaning Copyright Infringement. Copyright gets very confusing to what and what not a person can do. For instance, Ford makes a car called the mustang. I can make a car get the exact outputs it does but it cant be exactly the same in the details. Because as I have pointed out before and you pointed out as well its about the dollar.

Now that is not a bad thing. We all work hard for a dollar and believe me each and every one of us would be pretty darn ticked off if someone pick pocketed us and took our money! So when you take a copy of a game without paying for it then you just ripped the company off. They have to have the money to pay the people that work there and to get new machines which to develop on to make new technological advances in video gaming. That's not even getting into the cost of producing the media and packaging and shipping to get it to you, the customer. This goes with any field actually. Even us gamers.

The nit and gritty of it all is pirating hurts everyone in the end. Well except for those occasions when the pirating media is used against the pirates (ex. VHS). If you like the game just buy it. People don't need to look at it as "oh there goes more money out of my pocket" but look at it as, "I'm supporting a company to make another great game in the future!"
I told the Overseer of Vault 13 I'd give everything to save everyone, and so I did, I saved them all. Since then I've felt loneliness.

To steal is to take something and therefore deprive the one you took it from, copying is different entirely as nothing is lost. You could argue that profit is lost, but you would have to prove that someone would have purchased the software if they hadn't pirated it.

Now like I said, I'm not trying to justify piracy, but it's copyright infringement not theft. All in all it's a simple issue of semantics I guess and a bit irrelevant.

There's a great essay on piracy/drm by the honcho of stardock games: http://draginol.joeuser.com/article/303512/Piracy_PC_Gaming

Stardock released Sins of a Solar Empire and Galactic Civilizations 2 (among others), and despite very little coverage by the mainstream gaming media, these games have sold very well. Also, Stardock releases their games without even the simplest form of DRM, a cd check.

I don't think you can blame the "decline" (I think that decline is a bit of a myth as well) of PC gaming on piracy. I think PC game developers are targeting the wrong people. I feel like the majority of games released for the PC in the last decade have been reskinned versions of Doom and Warcraft, and very few of them are worth playing if you've been playing PC games for years. The last "recent" game I played was Portal. I thought it was phenomenal and worth every penny. Other than that nothing has caught my interest in the past couple years, and when I have time to play games I find myself playing the same games I played in the early to late '90s.

On backups: I'm not 100% certain of this, but I'm pretty positive (in the US at least) that no matter what a company puts in their EULA, a consumer has a right to have one backup of any piece of media that they have purchased.

And since microsoft was brought up it's interesting to note that they actually (silently of course) encourage and turn a blind-eye to the piracy of Windows. The larger the Windows user base the greater chance they have of selling their other products and support.

This person states how Infringement can be considered "a loss" pretty well. http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/04/is_copyright_vi.html <-- give it a read.

I think with the point made by the fellow of the blog is that copyright infringement laws are quite in due time for a change. Because legally there is a huge loop hole here and quite a few people out there are gladly taking advantage of it.
I told the Overseer of Vault 13 I'd give everything to save everyone, and so I did, I saved them all. Since then I've felt loneliness.

It's "Input", not "imput"


...

And it's best to just drop the discussion. .. Like Chris said, it's dubious at best.

You like it or not but it IS STEALING. stealing from DEVELOPER'S POCKET.

Yes, here we see the precious original, safe and sound.

And here we have a fine copy of it. Poof! All the world have it. And what developers get? Nothing.

See guys... It's like getting into factory and stealing the cd out. Same shit. But here is that wise motherfvcker sitting there safe and secured and stealing terabites of intellectual property. Do you read me well? INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. And if you think that you are an amazingly clever douchebag that only "copies" the original, then you better shut your fvcking mouth and hide somewhere where you'll be unseen and unheard.

I stole. Everyone here stole. Don't try to prove me wrong, its lying to yourself, I don't need your fvcking denials. But talking aloud about this is the most fvcking retarded thing that can be done.

It's exactly not like that at all. If I constructed an exact to scale replica of the Eiffel Tower in my backyard would I be accused of stealing the Eiffel Tower? If I cloned someones chicken and kept the clone did I steal their chicken? Are people who sing karaoke in bars stealing music (providing that they hit all the right notes)?

Those aren't perfect examples, because no copyrights are broken, but I think you get the idea.

Piracy isn't right, but it's not theft either.

I wouldn't say piracy doesn't affect the industry, but I do think the effects of piracy by individuals for personal use are overplayed by some PC developers. Some people won't buy software no matter what, and if they can't pirate it they wouldn't have purchased it anyway. Pirates are not a part of a PC developer target market.

Now if someone pirates a game and then makes copies and sells them, it's a whole different story.

@VaultDweller13

While the guys point about losing complete control over how something is distributed is valid, I disagree with his statment, "You can’t compete with “free and immediate.”" I think he could still release an e-book and it would sell the same amount as it would have prior to it showing up on torrent sites.



I don't think there is a loophole. Copyright infringement is clearly against the law. I agree that copyright laws are due for a change, but in a completely different way. I don't think musicians like Prince should be able to toss around DMCA takedown notices and threaten legal action against youtube for things like a 30 second video of a child dancing to one of his songs.

@duper

I don't think anyone is discussing the morality of piracy, just piracy in general, and no one is saying it's a good thing.

Disclaimer: I do not in any way, shape, or form condone karaoke.

It's exactly not like that at all. If I constructed an exact to scale replica of the Eiffel Tower in my backyard would I be accused of stealing the Eiffel Tower? If I cloned someones chicken and kept the clone did I steal their chicken? Are people who sing karaoke in bars stealing music (providing that they hit all the right notes)?


"sigh"
Ok. once again. For people who try to defend themselves, or have absolutely no idea of what they are talking about.

If I constructed an exact to scale replica of the Eiffel Tower in my backyard would I be accused of stealing the Eiffel Tower?
- Yes, if the Eiffel Tower constructor has patented his work. You've stolen his idea.

If I cloned someones chicken and kept the clone did I steal their chicken?
-Yes, by cloning the chicken you steal the "idea" of a chicken. Again, If the owner of a chicken has patented it.

Are people who sing karaoke in bars stealing music (providing that they hit all the right notes)?
-DEFINITELY YES IF! They recorded this on the tape or other device for future resell.

An absolute 99.9 per cent of software has this written while installing:

"cannot be rewritten, copied or re-recorded without written permission from the publisher"

Did you actually ever read terms of usage on any software? Even the Freeware software creators ask TO GIVE THEM CREDIT for their job.

::claps:: for Dizzy. Point well made. You actually explained it better than me ha ha!
I told the Overseer of Vault 13 I'd give everything to save everyone, and so I did, I saved them all. Since then I've felt loneliness.

To claim that the ideas were my own and attempt to resell them as you say, I would agree that that would be both copyright violation and theft.

I don't think when anyone pirates a piece of software they claim that they made it.



So if the government suddenly says you are no longer allowed to breathe, and you breathe anyway, then you're stealing oxygen? Or when you go 5 miles over the speed limit you're stealing velocity?

Look, copyright violation is called copyright violation because it is copyright violation. It's a civil matter and not a criminal one such as say, theft. When the RIAA go after grandmothers for downloading music, they aren't having them arrested, they're suing them. If they had stolen they would go to prison.

And I'm not "defending myself" as you so vehemently maintain, I don't pirate software.