No F3-KARMA nonsense please!

Post » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:28 am

Greets.

I just had to bring this to attention:

In F3, we had the "stupidest" karma system:

* We pick up anything = karma penalty.
* We pick up anything and NO one is around for miles = karma penalty for stealing (if a tree falls, and no one is around....!!).
* We pick up anything AFTER killing the owner-npcs (no witnesses either) = karma penalty for stealing (from the dead)!!!
* We pick up items from evil owners (ie cannibals, murderers) = karma penalty!

WTH!!!!

El-cheapo Bethesda Karma system: if(!owner) { Karma_Penalty(); } //no crosschecks needed.


PLEASE stay away from this sort of Karma system: It's only illegal if you get caught (or leave witnesses)! (Let's leave religion aspect out of this post-apoc world!) Image
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Alexis Acevedo
 
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Post » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:07 pm

I would definitely want to see karma in the game. Evil / good and the way it changed reactions of NPC's and potential outcomes was awesome. It was one of the things that added replay value! :D

However...

I agree 100% about the SOURCES of karma.

Ex: Picking up an empty nuka-cola bottle that spawns on the crazy hermit's bookshelf = no karma shift. BUT if you have a quest to either steal or refill his nuka cola bottle...THEN karma should shift.

PS: if(!owner) { Karma_Penalty() } ; // moved ; to end 4 u :)

* compiles and saves * If you see Metal Maniac, let him know I'm looking for 'em.
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Paul Rice
 
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Post » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:56 am



COMPILE ERROR!
Unexpected ; found after functon end.
:D

PS. Any relation to Faran Brygo by any chance? :geek: Image
Wastelander since C=64!

Awaiting Alpha/Beta testing!
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Kayleigh Williams
 
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Post » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:04 pm



COMPILE ERROR!
Unexpected ; found after functon end.
:D

PS. Any relation to Faran Brygo by any chance? :geek:

LOL, Yeah. And the Octotron says we are SUCH geeks. :D :lol: 8-)

* Hands you an RPG7 *

You go 'talk' to it... If you see Metal Maniac, let him know I'm looking for 'em.
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Deon Knight
 
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Post » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:40 am

I don't mind the F3 Karma system...

Oh wait...

I started out the game perfect and a bunny prosttute. a Good character. Good karma...

Then I kill 5 people and steal 10 things total in the entire game.

DEMON SPAWNM!!11111
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N3T4
 
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Post » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:33 am

There's really not *that much* wrong with how Fallout 3 handled karma. Stealing was over-enforced, however. With few exceptions, they should've stuck to the Fallout 1 and 2 formula for stealing. Stealing from the average folks doesn't affect your karma unless it's some kind of special item. But if your reaction to getting *caught* stealing is to barbecue them with your flamethrower, well, expect some negative points.

Karma should work something like this:

Kill bad guy = nothing happens (usually)
Kill bad guy for quest = Karma +
Kill good guy = Karma -
Kill good guy for quest = Karma -
Steal from bad guy = nothing happens
Steal from bad guy for quest = nothing happens (if "repo-stealing" for good guy, Karma +)
Steal from good guy = nothing happens (usually)
Steal from good guy for quest = Karma -
Get caught stealing from bad guy = See 'Kill bad guy'
Get caught stealing from good guy = See below
If good guy confronts you verbally, you can: return the item and apologize (no karma), lie your way into them letting you get away with it (karma-), shoot the bastard (karma-).

Fix town's water pump = Karma +
Steal water from pump you fixed = nothing happens (I fixed it dammit. Gimme some water.)
Massacre town when you get caught stealing your own water = Karma - (gotta draw the line somewhere)

Rescue little boy's dog = Karma +
Extort monet for dog's safe return = Karma -
Eat little boy's dog = Karma -
Feed little boy's dog to deathclaw = Karma - (unless deathclaw is starving, in which case no change)
Feed little boy to deathclaw = Karma - (even if deathclaw is starving)

Anyway you get the picture.
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Zach Hunter
 
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Post » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:52 am



amen
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[ becca ]
 
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Post » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:45 pm



The "karma" system isn't so much a religious thing as a means of measuring 'good' and 'bad' behavior in general. Just because karma is the word they used for it doesn't mean it's a religious thing. Lying, cheating, stealing, and killing are wrong even if you're an athiest. But depending on who you lie, cheat, steal from or kill, and for what reasons, it's ... 'flexible' 8-)

Also, the presence of witnesses isn't a karma factor; it's a local reputation factor. Think back to Fallout 2, where you could have a positive karma, and be "Idolized" in Klamath but "Vilified" in The Den. If The Den is full of slavers, thieves, criminals and drug-peddlers, gunning down a bunch of those low-lifes is kind of doing the world a favor (positive karma) but it won't win you any friends locally (reputation). If you repeatedly steal from a casino where the games are rigged anyway, you shouldn't lose karma, but you should lose local reputation when the corrupt owners catch you. Contrarily, if you steal the last of the water supplies from a desperate family and don't get caught, you should lose karma since you've pretty much doomed them, but not lose reputation with that family since they didn't catch you. Karma has been in all the Fallout games, and for that matter most role-playing games (in D&D they just call it Alignment).


Besides without post-doomsday religion we wouldn't have these fun-loving wierdos: Servants of the Mushroom Cloud, Children of the Cathedral, Followers of the Apocalypse, Church of Plutonius, Church of Atom, etc. Sorry, but it just wouldn't be the same without a chantry of glowing Oppenheimer-freaks spamming "Nrc nrc nrc" to themselves. Remember to wear your eye protection when you pray.
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Monika Krzyzak
 
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Post » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:01 am

eh, biggest problem with karma in FO3 was that it was way too easy to change. Ended up being meaningless.
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DeeD
 
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Post » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:09 am

If you want a sistem closer to "real" karma, bad one should be bought off with bad luck and good should be drained by getting more good rolls. Influence on status makes no sense since nobody can really see most of the bad acts you do

But, I'd love the old quirks. Grave digger, I always had that :D
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Gen Daley
 
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