My favorite aspect of Fallout 2 was the fact you could Improve or worsen you reputain with certain citys or what not. I think it would be interesting to say, Apply this to factions -IF- they are present in the game. Say if you were a super mutant helping out a mutant faction, and while doing so you would improve your standing with them, and worsen your standing with the BoS. I think this would be preety cool. Share your thoughts.

not a impossible concept, faction alignment has been a part of the previous Fallout games and is often percent in most MMO

Surely they will implement reputation since it's been in all of the fallout games but in a slightly different way. They usually aligned your reputation with your good/bad rating for the world and each city would only favor or drop out of favor after completing certain quests. I see no problem with this method as I feel the current reputation system in other games (WoW, I'm STARING at you) is absolutely broken and does nothing more than offer you a grinding experience to 'unlock' the top tier of rewards (quests, items, etc). That system makes reputation feel like a chore rather than ACTUAL reputation.

Completing a quest where you fix the water pump for a desert city (which they've done) or clear out a death claw cave which has been plaguing a small town (which they've done) seems like MUCH more natural way to earn your reputation with a given faction/group/city.

Definately good and bad, renown, reputations between enclare/brotherhood one city to one city, ghouls/raiders/super mutants etc../

Things like that give the games a higher replay value depending on what each faction has to offer in terms of gameplay. I think that is more important in a single player game though as oppose to a MMO. You don't want to shut too many quest doors to a player as to make it too difficult to level up but you also don't want so much time spent on adding quests and factions that there is little endgame to look forward to.

Factions yes!
I'd like to see some effects of your work towards factions on the wasteland.
For example, if you're pouring your efforts into the brotherhood outcasts, you might see more
of them patrolling and further out in the 'wasteland', or they might start having generally better gear.
A nice extra in FO3 was the ability to invest in traders too, this could be expanded on lots.

Ugh, I really hope they don't add a 'good/bad' rating.

Reputation is a great idea and an almost sure thing, but the above is just SO bland.

I don't know where I stand on this. I'm neither opposed, nor in favor. I have high rep with the Neutralians.

I've done the rep-grinds, I've avoided them, I've researched them, and I've ignored them completely. If anything, I would hope for something fresh and innovative. -- it’s an obsession. Not a cologne, either. Some think that the way it changes a person’s life is tragic, but they just don’t understand. - Wooz

Im all for factions and said grinds with factions. Im actually okay with grinding as long as it isnt just over the top rediculous. Grinding can extent gameplay some and gives people stuff to do when theyve done their raids or w/e.......just as long as its not tedious grinding...if that makes sense.

I expect them to add a karma system like in the old games - first the normal Good guy - normal guy - bad guy: they only affect which missions you get etc, then there is the reputation among the towns which affects.. well if they shoot you on sight or not, also if you are somewhat bad with a faction they may not give you the option to do all their quests as well.

Well factions will be there for sure question is if they will be joinable? Pemanently joinable or not? What will you need to gain theyr trust. Doing quiests? Supporting them with donations? Killing ppl they dont like? What benefits and disadvantages will you gain. Maybe some unique equipment. Advanced training. Item creating training if they will implement it and so on... For exapmle: you join slavers. Both rangers PC's and NPC's will attack you on sight but you can make extra money from slave raids. Like it was in fallout. And ofc you will have a big SLAVER on your forhead )

Slaver should be one of those "permanently" joinable factions due to the tattoo, sure you can leave but the tattoo will be there

Other than that I don't think that they should be permanent, you should be able to walk away whenever you want BUT your reputation among them will decrease much... very much and the negative reputation you got with others when you joined the faction will only go up slightly or nothing.

Thats what I think at least :/ so if you want to join them again you will have to do quests for them to gain their "trust" once again.

my biggest problem with MMOs is character irrevelancy, I've played too many games where what your character does has no effect on the game world. if certain areas won't accept you that makes how you play your character more important. also if your gonna have pvp, faction or reputation could play a huge role if you kill a good pc that would make you more evil and vice versa. that way if you are a newb killing munchkin who hangs out just outside of town you shouldn't be allowed in and "good" PCs would have a reason to take you out of action. that way there is a balance to things and you can't just kill indiscriminately and then go fence the loot with the NPC shopkeep three feet away.

I've posted several replies about factions because i think it could bring a whole new element into the game.

When you exit the vault, you'll have your NPC factions you can join, after proving your worth to get you on your feet(Enclave, BoS, Outcasts, Slavers, etc.) Experienced players, however should be able to make their own factions (clan-like) for players to join, and the more prestigious ones could potentially take over ghost towns/overrun the next ghoul town and start a settlement. Then i think the faction you are affiliated with should affect your reputation, not your personal karma.

If your faction over-ran a slaver camp, then slavers will attack your city, and try to take it back. NPC's would offer you Quests to help their friends escape from slavers, and the "good karma" quests would be opened up. If you wanted to revert to evil karma, then instead of helping their friends, you could sell that NPC faction out to the slavers, worsening your disposition with the faction but increasing it with the Slavers.

Or maybe you could enslave the NPC yourself to help build those Mark VII turrets around your city to defend you from the slavers... And maybe scrap metal could be useful for once like for building walls around your town or houses for faction members. The possibilities are endless

i doubt you coul ever be a slavers, you know US market hipper sensitivity yo that ...

i doubt you coul ever be a slavers, you know US market hipper sensitivity yo that ...

That will depend from game rating i gues. Dont tell me if the game will be 18+ you cant have slavers there. Ofc if they will make it 15+ or lower 60% of original fallout jokes and stuff will have to go. ( what a waste will that be ) Wasteland without slavers will not be complete. You have slaves even nowadays

Im going to post here because it doesnt seem like a lot of people on these forums have had a lot of experience with modern MMO's:

On faction Rep:

As of Wrath of the Lich King, the newest expansion for WoW, faction Rep can be gained in 4 ways:

1- Questing, this is pretty self explanatory, you do x quest for a NPC of the faction and you gain reputation, pretty much like Fallout does. However once you hit the level cap quests are still available from the lower levels and allow you to do them for currency and reputation instead of experience and reputation making it quiet proffitable to go back and do quests you may have skipped.

2- Daily Quests, these are basically like Quests except they reset daily, tend to be either pvp or if pve more abstract, ie.

A Caravan will spawn every hour or so going to shady sands, the evil faction completes the quest if they destroy the Caravan the good faction completes the quest if it makes it Shady Sands. The caravan spawns constantly so that everyone has a chance at success BUT every player can only complete the quest once a day.

3- Instances, a player can wear a mark associated with whatever faction they are trying to build rep with and then whenever they kill an enemy in the appropiate level range in an instance (Dungeon) they gain a varying amount of reputation tied to the enemies toughness with the marked faction.

The same can be applied for PvP as well for Fallout, whenever you kill an appropiately leveled Player you gain rep with the faction you are currently the "champion" of.

4- Turn ins, this still exsists but isnt as important as it once was, its your standard Enemy drops randomly an item that x of can be used to gain reputation with. Its there for people who are willing to grind for long periods of time or the items tend to drop from enemies one would kill for daily/normal quests and give a nice little burst of rep or an item to sell for additional funds to other players.

If this set up was followed it would allow reputation to be a fun option that can be persued at the pacing of the individual and through which ever course they wanted.

Also on negative faction gain, while this might seem cool and perhaps in a very limited way it can be the problem that comes with it is for newer players and group play particularly World PvP.

A new player, which I dont think I need to defend why they are the lifeblood of any MMO, will not know what they are supposed to kill and not kill. While you might say just read the quest text/manual/ or go to the website most will not. Even in an established game like WoW most players are lost before they leave the starting area because of these assumptions, which is why every zone is being redone in the coming expansion. Simply put negative faction effects shouldnt exsist untill the very end of the leveling process once a player has gotten into the swing of things.

Also Negative Faction effects tend to discourage group interactions particularly PvP in the open world. This is for several reasons, if the game has multiple different faction paths then you will rarely find x amount of people easily who are going down the same path.

Also most players, and by most you must realize forum users are not the majority of game players, dislike negative effects no matter how light they are, in World of Warcraft killing low level enemy faction NPCs resulted in negative effects at one point. It killed World PvP on a large scale because even though the effects are light simply because of state of PvP, someone will misclick or target and end up giving everyone else the negative effect and human nature, no matter how minor negative people wont do it, takes its course.

In response to the one person who thinks immersion is lost in MMOs Id like to either remind or tell them of the phasing enviroment that is being used more and more. Of which I am a big fan.

Essentially Phasing uses script to change the actual enviorment depending on level of quest progression. Players can exsist in the same area yet not see each other because they are in different phases of the zone.

This allows not only for a great level of immersion but also useful for overcrowding and griefinf issues.

An example for Fallout Online would be:

When you first arrive at Shady Sands its being overrun by scorpions, scorpions are spawning constantly in the town and NPCs are at choke points. As you quest the scoprions are pushed back and the NPCs advance, untill you complete it and the scorpions no longer spawn for that character in the town. However another brand new character would find the town overwhelmed by scorpions as your character first did.

Faction reputation in WoW exists primarily as an alternate currency / reward mechanism these days. Similar to badges, it is something that you accrue at a gradual pace, in the course of pursuing (generally) more powerful but more random loot. You might run an instance 17 times before it finally drops that awesome new weapon, but it's okay because you're also gaining the faction points which you'll eventually need to enchant your helmet, too!

In a certain respect, this is good. WoW has very successfully woven a large number of currencies together (honor points, badges, PvP tokens, reputation, cash, etc) to create several presumably parallel progression paths. There is a flip side to this, however, which comes with mudflation. As the rewards from these alternate forms of currency begin to outstrip those provided by the primary vehicle for attaining them, you end up with the consolation prizes becoming the ultimate goal. In WoW, one need look no further than the level 232-264 loot from badges, which are aquired from instances dropping 187-200 loot.

When this happens, the original content becomes sidelined, and often trivialised. It turns into a mindless grind instead of an engaging and relevant part of the character progression curve (which should generally reflect a loosely exponential growth in time investment : power increase ratio as power increases). Catch up mechanisms are important, but they need to be curtailed to prevent them blowing out into full on overtaking mechanisms.

Using factional reputation as a gear distribution mechanic is still a good idea, but its relevance to P:V13 will vary, I think, based on how important gear ends up being. Fallout 1 & 2 I think had a pretty good balance between gear and level based power, despite only really utilising 2 gear slots (3 if you count ammo).

Factions in P:V13 I think would definitely be an excellent idea. The Brotherhood of Steel is perhaps one of the coolest / most intriguing organisations I've seen in a computer game. That said, the decision on whether to pair these factions with a pseudo-currency reputation is one that will have to be considered carefully within the larger context of the game. There are pros and cons for both its inclusion and omission, and I'm sure it will be discussed extensively internally at gamesas before we see the final result Maybe you'll sit and sigh, wishing that I were near
Then maybe you'll ask me to come back again
And maybe I'll say "Maybe"

Yeah Brotherhood of steel, the epitomy of those with 'good' karma, and maybe the Enclave on the 'evil' end. Each could include smaller groups, like mercs, traders etc etc

But why stop where most MMO's stop.

Why not a THIRD playable Faction, The Mutants/Ghouls, where a player could do a bit of radioactive mind magic if playing as a 'glowing one'. These guys' could fit in the neutral zone for karma... they hate all smoothskins.

I thought of a 4th playable faction but it's just too crazy. The Raiders... who are REALLY under mind control of the ALIENS!

Faction and Rep: Yes, definitely.

Karma: No. Karma is not a "good" part of the games.