So here are my problems with instancing PvP: Personally i think it destroys immersion because of all the porting around to instances. It makes it feel sort of like you aren't actually in the game, almost separated from what's actually going on (it probably feels this way to me because you actually are!). It makes PvP feel artificial. It's also not as real because it is all pre-set exactly how many people and what levels they are.

One of the main things that turned me off to Warhammer Online was the fact that to get any xp or anything you had to constantly port around to Scenarios(Battlegrounds). This was a complete game killer for me and many other people I know. Please don't make this game feel like a jail cell.

What do you all think?

Ehm... as far as I remeber not everything was instanced in WAR... Those instanced scenarios was just another addition of pvp, next to the RvR, that you could play... to give you multiple options and styles of PvP. So you could play smaller teams of people, instead of always larger battles.

And I don't understand what you mean with: "the fact that to get any xp or anything you had to constantly port around to Scenarios(Battlegrounds)"

From what I saw when I played the game through the last 6 or 7 months of beta (and from what I heard about the game inthe following months after release), leveling via RvR, and PvP in general, was a very viable option. You could get from lvl 7'ish to max level by only doing RvR and PvP. So I really don't understand why your saying that to get any xp you had to do battlegrounds... because any pvp you did would give you xp.

Instancing pvp should be an option, there could be some very cool battles scenarios. But instanced should only be an option, could even be connected through faction wars (example: NCR goes into battle against raiders at 13:00, you go to the officer and talk to him and joines the battle - When in the battle you get an armor and weapon, when you die they take it back.)

IMHO instanced PvP zones can make for really great battle scenarios, like Bikkebakke said. It makes for some pretty good co-op gameplay without having being interfered by any passers-by.

Of course, it should not be accessible by normal means and only through a faction side's entrance into that place itself IMO. Like having to go to a certain faction post where a portal into that instanced PvP zone is located. The whole "talk to a general to immediately port you to the PvP zone" really sounds unrealistic. XD

okey put it this way: "NCR goes into battle against raiders at 13:00, you go to the officer and talk to him and you then wander off to the designated rally point".

Instanced PvP is an equivocal thing. In one case, if it is a part of another more global PvP system (local battlefields that affect global map) like in WHO - it is pretty good. It was f great pleasant to know that your success in the instance battle approaches your realm victory, to feel yourself as a part of history.
But on the another case, synthetical battlegrounds that affects nothing and made just for fun and dike measuring, like in WoW, they are really senseless and contemptible. Excuse my bad English... I am a Russian bear, it's hard to type with claws.

I agree somewhat. What i loved most about Warhammer was the battles that took place in the world and not the queued up battle areans between two teams. Instancing pvp battles is a nice option for some players. It somewhat makes sense. Instead of "teleporting" you queue up at a caravan of vehicles. When you enter the battle your spawn zone is the caravan. This implies you didn't teleport, you drove!

I think that caravan is inappropriate example, because I prefer to fight for real caravan moving from one real town to another and transporting real trade goods, robbing by real players and defending by real players. That is what really interesting and giving reason to fight. It's just speaking about caravans.
A fight for ground control is better. For example, you are going through the wasteland and hear sounds of skirmish, coming closer you see a cloud of smoke and flashes of explosions towards in a distance. Coming closer you get a message: "There are *** fighting *** for an oil derrick. Do you want to join the battle?" (Under *** may be faction or a players' clan) Excuse my bad English... I am a Russian bear, it's hard to type with claws.

You know what I mean. Ok nix caravan from my post and replace with troop transport.

I feel like the whole point of playing an open MMO is spontaneity though. The whole point IS to get interfered by a passerby. That's why you play an MMO. For chance happenings in which you can interact with real people. I just feel like instances are a breaking down of what MMORPGs were here for. If I wanted to port around to instanced I would play CoD.

I hate PVP so please gamesas made a PVE server and have instanced PVP available

I think too much instancing is the worst thing you can have in an MMO. It takes away the feel of being in a huge game world with a lot of other players. Waiting in a que to PvP is not only immersion breaking but also ridiculous. Who fight battles by appointment? I'm hoping any PvP areas are wide open spaces. That can be entered by anyone at any time. Thinking that you know anything about MMOs because you play WoW. Is like thinking you're a master chef because you work at McDonalds.

This could work I think. Unless of course servers are heavily populated and many PCs want to join in - a la SWG pre CU when entire cities would erupt in PvP. Ultimately crashing the server. I wonder if instanced PvP is a necessary evil - maybe it would be possible to contain it. Once or twice a week there are 'war' events, the rest of the time it is open world "What would your good do if evil didn't exist, and what would the earth look like if all the shadows disappeared?"

what I mean is that these "big" (can be from 10-50, i dont know) battles can be instanced, and the rally point is a caravan or something, which then leads you to the instance.

Sure it's not a sixy way of dealing with it but the big ass battle will be held privately without any innocent bystanders getting caught in it.

Also make the wars have max cap - smaller battles may only have max 10 on each side while the really big battles which is more rare will contain up to 50 or more on each side, i dont know just throwing some ideas.

It doesn't have to be instanced but I think these bigger battles would suit better to be instanced. Gang wars and normal pvp should be in the "real" world.

I feel exactly the opposite of you. I feel like the whole point of playing an MMO is to have fun interacting with people in ways that I chose too. When I PvP, I like to fight people that are about an even match for me, or even a little better than me. I like going into an instance and knowing that everyone I come across is first of all, Prepared to die, and that I will actually be challenged in fighting them. When I'm out and about in the Game World I don't mess with people unless they give me a reason not to like them. I guess I just believe in a certain level of player etiquette.

Imagine for a moment that in Fallout Online you can get a chessboard and challenge people to a game. First of all I'd love that option, but if I was FORCED to play chess against every challenger or face Death consequences.... I'd be against that as well

Instances are just there to gather like-minded players trying to achieve a similiar goal. Instances put you in contact with other players who actually want to interract with you

i agree with both of you. about sponteneity AND being able to avoid murderers.

why do these games have to be MMo's? why not Mo's?

the map may be large but but why have multitudes of people in a post apoc world?, and why only have 2 starting 'base' factions?

i'm proposing some kind of cap on servers (if possible) to like 300 players per faction per server? (totally arbitrary numbers)

in the *real world* it would limit players.
a real griefer would have to hike his arse off to become a pain in the arse, meanwhile attracting attention to where he is... on foot...

but i love instances too... and they fill the gap for casual/solo/fungroups both behind and in front of enemy lines >: )

Instancing serves one of two purposes:

1. Complex PvP: i.e., making the zone complex enough to be incredibly evolved and intelligent in terms of how the players interact with the environment and each other.

2. Hardware limitations. i.e., limiting the number of people in the above example so that the server doesn't outright die on you.