How would you like to see PvP implemented in 'Fallout Online?' This is an opened ended question and could take other threads into account. Any thoughts, 'musts,' or 'absolutely nots' are welcome!

My only certainty is: Open World PvP. No 'Battlegrounds,' 'no warzones.' There definitely should be 'contested' areas focused on PvP - perhaps a resource plant that factions vie over (ie, waterworks for pure water/rad away, mines for minerals/ore used to sell or possibly craft etc). "What would your good do if evil didn't exist, and what would the earth look like if all the shadows disappeared?"

To me, it wouldn't feel like Falllout with out some form of PVP.

Should also exist bases for gangs, that if you engage in war will be visable to the other gang (but the bases can be heavily fortified with mercenaries or perhaps even turrets if the gang got enough money and some power )

agreed. i would love to see a system 'similar' to DFO - guilds can construct bases and hire npc guards to protect them. of course, unless the maps are gigantic this could make FO appear way over-populated. maybe not?

Open world PvP is a must in my opinion. "What would your good do if evil didn't exist, and what would the earth look like if all the shadows disappeared?"

Well that depends, is there a map as in fallout 1,2,tactics (similar to them atleast) or is it like fallout 3.

if its like f3 then you will have to make a reaaally big world and then have a fixed number of buyable bases or something :/

My take on this topic is simple. For me, the spirit of Fallout lies in the most basic truths about Human Nature. War. War never changes. When organizations vie for resources, ultimate destruction is almost always the end-result. There are several organizations in the Fallout canon, but most of those are only interested in survival - resources like clean water, food, and fuel (or some form of energy) are the primary concerns. Organizations that might be interested in such things are gangs/raiders/families or newly formed G.E.C.K. towns. The Brotherhood (in addition to survival needs) are also interested in the archeological preservation (and protection) of technology - such that its use should never again result in apocalypse.

From an individual's perspective, the acquisition of survival needs comes down to two other simple truths in Human Nature:

1) Finder's Keepers: Scavenging, saluaging, and prospecting are essential skills. That which is abandoned as junk could very well be considered a treasure.
2) Survival of the Fittest: (or - what is yours is, in actuality, mine; you just don't know it yet.) If an individual has the prerogative to give, then that choice is their own, but they are still subject to the global rule: there is no law to protect the concept of "property."

To bring all of this philosophy to a point: PvP should be open and uncontrolled for most of the world. Safe zones should be limited strictly to the confines of militia protected towns. And even those towns should be under constant threat from the rest of the world, for the resources which are stockpiled within. -- it’s an obsession. Not a cologne, either. Some think that the way it changes a person’s life is tragic, but they just don’t understand. - Wooz

Man you are totaly right , there is none to add. If you see Fonline:2238 , which is based on Fallout 2 , you'll see that is one of the most hardcoe games ever , you died even in towns. Even the town guards died a lot and no one is safe anywhere, thats war.
If gamesas beggins to care to much about the noobs players in this game it only ruin the Fallout spirit.
Also there should be a good reason for respawning ? , you lost everything when you died. But if you lost the character i'm sure just a few little will play and for a MMO that is the ruin. So we should use some kind of argument like the one that was used in Fonline:2238 but using some kind of space station that recreate us back on the earth or sending us in a probe or something like that. After all DNA makes anyone just data , but you should keep saving yourself ( maybe the pipboy do that for you ).

To be honest i preffer fallout 3 map system , but doing that fast travel all the time ruin the experience of living in the wasteland. So random encounters and encounters with strange places will be great, and when some of them happens the fast travel stops and you are on the encounter ( or you can decide if you have enough outdoors skill and success to avoid being spoted).

In my opinion the problem with open world pvp ( specifically where EVERYWHERE in the wasteland is PVP ) is its just gonna devolve into gank squads who are gonna zerg noobs or single adventurers.
this of course will ruin the game. Some people are going to want to feel alone and trying to survive in the wasteland and don't necessarily want to be part of a huge guild always rolling 20 deep in the wasteland.
PvP should be in the game but only in specific areas or servers. MMO's... MMO's never change...

Since survival is paramount a rescource gathering/defense sorta deal would fit perfect in the world imo

An absolute must in my opinion. I wouldn't play the game otherwise. I think open world is really important because of course this is Fallout. This game is open world in general. I hope that it's designed the same way also. The idea that there are some cities around, but the wasteland is huge, explorable, and open. I hope they can cut down on zones and instances(preferably keep it to NO instances at all). I think open PvP is very important for adding immersion.

Honestly any type of war-zone PvP or instance PvP just completely destroys immersion. I think PvP should be allowed EVERYWHERE EXCEPT CITIES. The wasteland is a big dangerous place! Keep the world open and the PvP open!!

First of all, I think the world should be huge. If it's not huge, it's just not going to be fallout. Whether to use a FO/FO2 style world map or actually trekking from place to place a la some other well known games I'm not sure of. Which model is chosen is important to how PvP is handled.

For FO/FO2 style games, PvP could easily be omni-present, and have guards in towns shoot anyone who fires a gun/raises a fist/whatever and isn't wearing a badge/uniform/is on good grounds with the locals. Just make sure that the guards are capable and can handle a small group of well-equipped players.

For the trekking style, I'm a bit more reluctant about having omni-present PvP -- the raiders are likely to simply spoil the game for everyone (including themselves when people stop playing). Besides that, I don't think it will be a good thing to have trekking in huge worlds. Having it as an option maybe, but then the map makers would have to spent time on making maps that are essentially never going to be used, except once in a while when people decide to walk the desert. I think I would rather have interesting locations than empty maps that I have to walk.

Regarding player owned locations/forts. Finders keepers I say. Make it possible to simply kill any inhabitants of the fortresses and claim it for your own (in which case having a predefined set is not a bad thing) -- let NPC guards/turrets/mines guard the places when players are not online/near it. Don't make them "buyable", but do make them "upgradeable". Maybe let a gang of raiders stockpile their loot to make their guards even better (better weapons, armour and more ammo = better equipped people, better trained etc) -- maybe let well defended fortresses attract more people and let it turn into a settlement -- over time (not too sure about the last part though, might be too much code for too little benefit).

Them play other game... this is Fallout , this is war , this is survivable , not a day in the park . And it wasn't ruin the gameplay and anything , the only ones that don't play this games are the ones that one like safe pve and for me i don't want that kind of player in this game! There are to much shitty games like that and it would be very sad to see this game go in the same path...
And many would want to hire to a guild to this guys in order to work for the guild , has harvesting , searching or any basic work that a noob can do. Gangs are the best way to do guilds in this game , is the natural way.

This is a good idea , this is what it would bound people to a city and have the necessity to protect it and work for it. What it should be Fallout Online is many cities trying to rise from the dust and develop them further and further.

Most MMO's out there has some pretty mindless PVP. I personally think Fallout should have PVP with consequences eg. faction and politics should be a big part of it, and this would affect the world of Fallout. There should be AI factions, and also player factions, so that PVP is not a mindless kill or be killed. There should be motivation to actually kill someone, be it factions, fame, etc.. and there should be consequences tied to this action. Example if u like being an asshole to go around griefing players etc.. u might not be able to go to certain towns since u are KOS to the guards. Such towns have certain key resources that u will need for crafting some nice stuff... so u need allies or a good buddy to help u get those stuff. So a good mix and cross mix of such dependencies will help put some meat into the game and factor in morality and justice versus the darkess scums of mindless killers....

To clarify further, there should be a pretty good mix of these dependencies and it should not be only 1 dimensioned, i.e. there should be a pretty > 2 levels of dependencies for these resources to make it challenging and tough environment.

Well bring on the flames cause I hate unrestricted PvP.
The only thing it leads to is:
- griefing by those who don't have a life outside of the game
- that means that the people who made the game get only a fraction of the income they could have and
- those playing the game either quit, watch it die slowly, or end up fighting just a few other people / groups.

There are too many MMOs out there now to allow unrestricted PvP and expect to survive long-term. The UO days are gone. Fallout Online must appeal to a wider audience, and that means tight restrictions on PvP. With that audience the devs end up with a larger budget and that reaps rewards for those playing in the form of more content, richer content and longer game lifespan.

That said, I also feel Fallout would not be the Wasteland its supposed to be without any PvP. Wandering the Wastes is a risk, so try this:
- Karma is a bich.
Kill people, lose karma. Help people, gain karma. Got karma to spare? Spend it on cool stuff!

- Your Rep precedes you.
If you do a lot of stuff, good or bad, people will probably hear about it before they ever meet you, if they ever meet you. This means you have a Reputation, and that can be good or bad. Positive or Negative. Yin or Yang.
If you have Rep, spend it to make sure everybody knows that tommygun is yours or to make the raiders leave your merchant caravan alone. Your Rep is Negative? So what? Just means they fear you instead of trust you. Still spends the same way.
You spent all your Rep? ALL of it? Bad idea. Now the Brotherhood wont' let you in the door any more, cause you're a nobody. The town with the bank your cred is in wont' let you through the gates either, cause you're a nobody. Worst thing in the wastes, being a nobody. Nobody but nobody cares about nobodies.

- Faction.
Got Rep? Another place to spend it is on Faction. Want to make sure the Brotherhood permanently remembers the good things you've done? Spend Rep to get Faction points with the Brotherhood. Want to make sure that town permanently lets you in the gates? Buy faction with them using your Rep.

- Balance.
Of course, just because you did a lot of stuff for that town doesn't mean they won't remember if you start slaughtering people. Karma, Rep, and Faction must have a balance, and if one outweighs the other, results happen. That can be good things, or bad things, but when bad things happen they tend to be really bad.
Got faction with the Brotherhood but went on a killing spree that happened to include other Brotherhood? Oh, you should have looked more closely because now that Brotherhood Faction you had? It's negative. And they don't like traitors. And they have miniguns. And pay for bounties.

Just some thoughts.

So, you think roving gank squads wandering 5+ deep and jumping anything that moves that isn't close to their size or larger is a good thing? And you hate people that don't want to be forced to join a guild and wander in large groups in a place that SHOULDN'T be highly populated. You are the problem with gaming today. If you WANT to be in a guild that's fine, join a guild. I tend to run solo until I'm a higher level, only joining a group when I Have to.
Different people have different gaming styles. Just because you don't like someone that doesn't play things exactly your way, doesn't mean that they shouldn't have a place in an MMO based on a game that They love just as much as you do.
I'd be worried to gather resources in a game where you were around, knowing that you'd happily attack and kill me just to take everything I have and split it among you and your guildies that just ganked me. Merely because I was there and you could do it. No other reason. I didn't harm any of your guildmates, I didn't insult you or anyone else in your group or faction. I was merely scrounging for ammo alone so now I'm gone and you're 30rnds of 10mm and 250 caps richer. Yeah, makes total sense to me. bugger off...

So, you think roving gank squads wandering 5+ deep and jumping anything that moves that isn't close to their size or larger is a good thing? And you hate people that don't want to be forced to join a guild and wander in large groups in a place that SHOULDN'T be highly populated. You are the problem with gaming today. If you WANT to be in a guild that's fine, join a guild. I tend to run solo until I'm a higher level, only joining a group when I Have to.
Different people have different gaming styles. Just because you don't like someone that doesn't play things exactly your way, doesn't mean that they shouldn't have a place in an MMO based on a game that They love just as much as you do.
I'd be worried to gather resources in a game where you were around, knowing that you'd happily attack and kill me just to take everything I have and split it among you and your guildies that just ganked me. Merely because I was there and you could do it. No other reason. I didn't harm any of your guildmates, I didn't insult you or anyone else in your group or faction. I was merely scrounging for ammo alone so now I'm gone and you're 30rnds of 10mm and 250 caps richer. Yeah, makes total sense to me. bugger off...

First of i'll never participate in guild and always play alone , as in pvp and pve . Then why i'm too much in favor of "guilds" ? well.. because in the wasteland is very hard to survive if you are alone , except if you are a hardcoe player that know when you has to fight and when you has to run.
About "let them play as they want"... sorry but this is a social game and their are focus to a type of player and them some types of player will be the ones that can go well with the games and others don't. Thats the reason why i said that i don't like some kind of player , not because i don't like they way of gaming , just because they are at conflict when you has to decide the that of MMO the company wants to do.
And for the last part of your comment , yes that is what i'm talking about : LOOTING! . Sorry man but this are the wastelands , if this were perfect world or other kind of thing maybe it should pointed out in a different way. But if you play Fallout 2 and not one the Fallout 3 , and also play Fonline:2238 ( i recommend you to at least try it , is very good even though is in beta , and is for free ) you should know what this is all about: War , War Never Changes.

Finally , in order that you and i could shake our hands and being happy , see the example of Shaiya Online . It has at least 3 or 4 different levels of gaming , from very easy to extreme hardcoe and you decide in which server you want to play. It could have 2 o 3 different servers with different features and you can upgrade ( only from easy to hard ) your player and try play there or make a new one with the same account and try it before risk your main player made in the easy server.

That is a lot of bullshit , a friend of mine he play FOnline:2238 and he has excelent life , international musician and photographer , and he has a faction in this game and also almost 3 players at top level. So sorry man but what you pointed out , is too false. And i play UO and it was GREAT!.
Maybe you don't know the words "Efford" and "Challenge" , and if the wastelands doesn't require you that WHILE YOU ARE PLAYING , them there is no reason to call this Fallout. It would be just mod of the same MMO that we see in any corner.
And you said clear , you hate unrestricted PvP , well... them now when you has to run! is a very valid strategy and i use it a lot

Drasky, I was merely trying to point out that if they do totally unrestricted PVP you end up with the scenarios I was talking about.
And yes, I would like to leave this as friends and not being rude and mean. I like the way that AOC did things (sorry for bringing a non gamesas game up) with several servers. Some were PVE with PVP Zones and others were open PVP... I've played on both and I tell you, getting ganked by a lvl80 stealther when you're barely lvl21 bites Ass. Yeah, he got a whole 5 coppers off my corpse. Why did he do it? It was PVP/RP and he was a bandit... As to the looting of corpses, if it is a final death scenario, I agree that you should snag some good gear, but if it is classed as defeat instead of death then you should only get a random item and percentage of money. I'm going to try to avoid guilding/ganging as long as I can... I Love the solo life.