Sometimes I wonder if I'm playing the same game as everyone else. It seems a common theme is that skills are hard to level up and therefore use trainers. Indeed, that's one bit of advice often given in the game, and it works. I've done that myself to improve sneak.

But I still find myself perplexed when I read people talking about that wrt the magical arts, to speechcraft and to mercantile because except for destruction IMO they are very easy to increase. It's more as if the issue for players is that they can't raise the skill as fast as they want rather than that they can't raise the skill. I'm probably in the minority because I now only use a trainer for sneaking, but OTOH I never choose sneak as a major/minor skill anyway, so I seldom try it and more rarely buy training in it.

At one time, I did think it was hard to raise magic skills, speechcraft and mercantile, but rethought my strategy and realized it is easy, all the time keeping within the rules and spirit of the game. One of the first pieces of advice given is, practice your skills. I blinded myself to the possibilities thinking I had to stick with the spells I started with or purchased. I knew that you could buy customized spells, but it wasn't until I had played a lot of games that it dawned on me, not to make spells to kill the enemy but to make spells that only cost 2 or 3 spell points and last just a few seconds. In many cases it's pretty cheap to make those type of short-term spells. The point isn't to try to use it against an enemy but to be able to cast it frequently enough at a minimal magicka cost because practice is the only way to improve the skill.

The mages advise to buy a variety of spells for customizing. Again, I had tunnel vision thinking 'bigger' and 'more powerful'. But if you step outside of that mindset, follow the game advice to buy a variety of cheap spells in each of the magicka categories and then customize one of each type. In my case, I choose spells that affect only me. I usually have a spell to practice: conjuration (e.g., binding spells), alteration (levitation, lock), illusion (night eye), mysticism (recall, intervention, soul trap, righteousness) and restoration (fortify). Destruction is the only school of magicka I haven't found a satisfactory spell to try. I cast these spells while on the move, they don't antagonize bystanders, and I use alchemy or sleep to restore my magicka.

Alchemy is very easy to raise, especially if you're willing to use yourself as a guinea pig. IIRC, the NPC who tells you to practice also gives you a hint about alchemy. Regardless, all you have to do is sample the various ingredients (animal, vegetable, mineral) you gather and make note of what the effect was so that you can decide whether to consume it in the future. In my case, I add notes to the game world map to remember. The more frequently you eat ingredients or later acquire and use alchemy equipment, the quicker you raise your skill. And you're given hints if not explicit info about specific ingredients that have useful effects. This is one skill all my chars work on developing ASAP. But it's so easy IMO that I don't select it as either a major or minor skill.

Enchanting seems relatively easy if you can keep yourself supplied with soul gems containing trapped souls. I get frustrated with my attempts to enchant an item because there is a high failure rate, but you can also recharge enchanted items. For whatever reason, I don't find that as frustrating. And each successful event increases your skill.

Once I reread the game info about speechcraft and mercantile, I've found that they are easy as long as you are patient. NPCs repeatedly advise you to spend your money to improve cooperation and that using spells or potions to increase your personality for the short term can backfire. You improve your speechcraft skill via persuasion which includes bribery and several non-monetary alternatives. My chars choose to use bribery, which works as long as you have the gold If the bribe fails, then I back off and return another time. Regardless, bribery is an effective way to improve your speechcraft and can be practiced more often than the alternative methods IMO.

WRT mercantile skill, there are two things going on when you barter. You can see that the merchant's disposition moves up or down each time you make an offer; up if accepted or down if rejected. Again, you get advised to deal with merchants who like you (disposition). Bribery can help here. But AFAIUI your mercantile skill increases when you successfully negotiate a price favorable to you relative to what the initial offer was from the merchant. So my strategy is to barter either on a 'high' priced item or on a sufficient quantity of an item and just go for a minimum change in my favor from the merchant's offer. My objective is not to get the "largest" monetary advantage in the sale but to make an offer the merchant would immediately accept but is still favorable to me, thereby increasing mercantile skill.

The one word I'd stress about raising skills is patience. Your char has to develop his/her skills over time. For me, that is part of the fun of game. With the exception of the sneak skill, my experience is that all the skills are very easy to increase. The only reason I single out sneak is because I don't have the patience for it Until I modded my game with MCP, sneak was not only tedious but physically uncomfortable. Now it's just tedious.

Hope you'all find this helpful.

John

Welcome to the year 2002, day two after game release. To help with the sneak problem, jump on a table near an NPC, they only notice things on the floor so you will be in sneak mode, put a weight on the sneak buttonand leave the PC overnight. This way you can also steal pretty much everything right from under their noses.

That or install mods like GCD@Co which bring sense into the levelling system (things like skillgain depending on mana used, manareg based on willpower, no more grinding for x5, retroactive health, etc)

That mindset may be one of three of four reasons why many OB players can't get into MW. Powergaming in OB seems to be mandatory, just to keep pace with the NPCs and creatures that level and scale around your character as you level. Trying to do the same in MW will simply lead to a lot higher rate of failure and frustration.

Personally, I avoid paying for training in any Major skill, and try to limit paid training of Minor skills to 1 per level, if at all. I see no problem with using it to bring a Misc. skill up to the point where you can reasonably self-train. That's perfectly sensible, and even somewhat affordable.

I consider using a 1 point spell with no real target, strictly for training, to be a bit "cheezy", but if that's the only legitimate way to boost the skill, then it's "acceptable". I prefer to have a spell made that's a bit pathetic, but still marginally useful: such as 1 damage for 3 seconds or so. It's still sufficient to "soften up" a Rat or Mudcrab before they reach you, but won't decide a fight by itself. Alteration allows a 10s waterwalk for a mere point or two, which is more than sufficient for crossing streams and small rivers (like out toward the mouth of the Odai, or just outside Seyda Neen). A small 5 point Light or Night Eye spell on Self for a few seconds is enough to check things out in caves or other dark places, yet not sufficently long for actual navigation in the dark. Such spells may be of "limited use", but are not "useless training spells". I use them whenever "appropriate", but not when there's no "excuse" to do so.

One of the most powerful training aids in the game is stuck into a table in the Census and Excise office. Yes, that legenday iron dagger has the amazing property of allowing you to hit a Mudcrab several times before they suddenly roll over and stop training you, and since the value of the item is only 1, guess how much the MAXIMUM repair cost is, not matter HOW badly you mangle it in repeated combats? In fact, it does its true job even better when it's heavily damaged.

Enchanting is VERY difficult at low level, but only if you try to exceed "safe" limits. The problem is, at starting skill levels, that "safe" limit is well under half an enchantment point. If you set up an enchantment and edge up the sliders so that the number of enchanting points just jumps from 1 to 2, then you just have to figure on using well under half that strength, duration, or other parameter. For example, creating a "better" healing ring that replaces 1 point for 2 seconds is under 0.5 enchanting points, and can be made with about even odds by a "beginner" enchanter. The item will be far more efficient than the "starting" healing ring you find, and with a Cliffracer soul, will be capable of healing several times as many points of damage. Note that an item that does 1 point for 2 seconds uses a bit less power than one that does 2 points for 1 second.

Eating Alchemy ingredients is only about 5% as efficient as brewing potions for raising your skill. It works, but it's pathetically slow. The same holds true for making a new Enchanted item or recharging withg soulgems, versus using "On Use" Enchanted items. Default settings give no experience for using "On Strke" enchantments.

Training Sneak turned out to be relatively easy. Scribs are "not the sharpest tools in the shed", and seem to be relatively easy to sneak up on from behind. If they do notice you, they may carry on a bit and hiss at you or thump their tails, but you can just slink away and try it again in a little while. No need to even hurt the little critters.

You just have to manage the risk factor for each of those skills, which is one of MW's biggest challenges to learn. Problem is, the game never really tells you that, and only months or years of playing will reveal all of its secrets and tricks.

For Destruction, I have a spell created that I call Candlelighter. It's just a 1hp for 1 sec fireball spell. Uses 1 mp. Is it boring to throw a hundred fireballs to level up the skill? A bit. But I'm an old RPG'er who used to spend hours killing slimes on Dragon Warrior in order to level up. I also use the spell on enemies like the mud crabs, rats, nix hounds, and the hated cliff racers since I can aggravate them at a distance and still work on skill.

And it did feel good to hit 100 for each one.




B)

I have Alchemy maxed, which means I can literally print money. I just pay for training ... it is faster and easier. And kind of fun journeying to some of the master trainers.

I like the name. Mine are mundane.

Mine is getting there and will happen sooner or later. No big deal. I don't use alchemy in my games to make money (house rule) but to keep stocked mainly with healing and restore fatigue potions. My characters always like running around the landscape or jumping around in the mountains; something exhilirating to building up a pace and jumping across a gap, sometimes over a stream of lava.