One aspect that I've loved about fallout was the fear aspect. Not so much as in getting scared as in not knowing what a certain npc was going to be like, Is he hostile... is he friendly etc. And how random encounters could have been good or bad. I personally would love it if in V13 that "fear" was still instilled. The always looking over your shoulder, being completely aware of your surroundings type of fear. I guess this would have to deal with death penelty as well, in order to keep that fear you'd have to have a strong enough death penelty to make you feel like dieing is really a bad thing in the game.

Anyone else have thoughts on this aspect of the game?

Although i really didn't experience much of what you're talking about in FO1+2, i do agree that the death penalty needs to be much more than a slap on the wrist, with the exception of most PvP. If it's too harsh for PvP than no one will want to risk it.

I think he is talking about....... Fallout 3 AHH DON'T HURT ME!! But even better, mostly because in that game attack music went on when attacked, so that kinda got rid of the fear...

I like the idea, but not to the point when you have guys huddled around eachother in different directions. Thats a little too extreme.

Nah I wasn't talking about Fallout 3 but F3 did keep that "fear" alive. No I liked how, when I first played F2(only other fallout i've played besides F3 and F: NV) It really felt like a wasteland where the next guy I meet could just shoot me. I liked feeling immersed in the "kill or be killed" mentality, and "taking chances" when meeting people.

Ah i get it, i support you 100%

Actually, one of the rules for my future player faction will be to find a group of faction members and join up as soon as you log in. It's a dangerous wasteland out there. I put the 'Skill' in 'Kill.'
Wait, what?

I disagree regarding PvP. I think it should have pretty much the same penalty.
I know some aspects of PvP are already decided, but I'm still hopefully of wandering around being free to kill other competing (for resourses perhaps) players outside of duels but facing long-term penatlies as well if it wasn't deserved. (In a wasteland, I presume "outlaws" can be themselves killed with reprecussions).

Say there are "arena" fights. The rewards should be very real, but so should the game death penalty.

If my character is racing against some other character to collect a bounty or something, I should be able to attack my competitor, but know that if he were to get the jump on me, the death penalty is much more severe than not getting the reward.
tl;dr the game is very long, not always combat orientated "deathmatch".

Obviously there undoubtedly has to be protection against people not playing the game (trolls) killing other player characters and npcs for the sake of harassment of the player, and there also has to be some limits so players who want to play mostly against the environment can do so without being killed by a player with honest intentions of playing a character with dishonest ones. Why do games studios have to fight and die? War, war never changes : (

That can be combated with factions or karma, if your karma is too low guards at all cities / outposts attack you on site, eventually the bad guy runs out of bullets and can't buy from anywhere.

Not being able to toggle off your PvP flag for a long time after ganking someone would be nice to have...i hate douche-bags that hit-n-run and come back all tough with no flag.Or perhaps someone who is constantly killing people in the wastes gets marked on other peoples Pip-Boy map...the more people he/she kills the more accurate the location, assuming the map is divided into grids like it always has.Anyone who comes to take him/her down receives a bonus in xp/pvp points of some sort/caps or whatever.

Screw flags and XP. Make it mostly in-game (with proper account sanctions against those who don't follow the terms and conditions.)
In game law handles murder. You kill someone, you're not wanted in respectable company. This should be backed up by NPC weight, so bastardy can't take over the entire world. Those NPC factions (probably the New California Republic, Brotherhood or Enclave) place bounties to be collected by players (and NPCs too). Disciple system and huge amount of quests, making "bandit clearing" as serious a task as it's implied to be. Plus I think provided you respect the no-kill limits, I think players should be allowed to be an outlaw/bandit. If not, account sanctions. Why do games studios have to fight and die? War, war never changes : (

What about buying from bad guy factions? Trust me, they always have a way

Being that it's already been stated that PvP will be completely consentual, making the penalty for death in PvP too strict will make it so the majority of players will just avoid it unless they severly outclass the competition.

IMO, most of the penalty for death/loss should be geared towards player factions, not individual players. There should still be some penalty for the individual player, but it should be minimal. After all risk+cost needs to equal chance of success+prize. A lone player, although much more likely to lose against a pack of bandits also presents a much smaller prize, easier to obtain prize. However a player faction with territory they control would present a much larger prize as well as a bigger challenge to another player faction that decides to attack them, and vice versa.

+1, I would like there to be quite a bit risk to do guild fighting, like high chance of item dropping when killed in guild fighting and when that loot is then lootable, BUT when an individual player (not in any kind of guild fight) dies he may only lose 1,2 random items or just get heavy deterioration on his equipment, either way I would like a little punishment for dying, just not a big one when an individual is killed, anyway, when an individual player dies he shouldn't really drop anything that anyone else can loot.

I want that because I wouldn't like to see guilds lining up patrols to go kill random people all the time to get their loot (looking at you fonline 2238 >_>). Also guild fights dropping should ONLY be included when there is an actual guild war, like when 2 guilds have declared official war on each other (should be some kind of mechanism to do this, like send a war message to them that they can decline/accept, just so megaguilds just cant go around slaughtering the smaller guilds).

ANYWAY I like my idea then I got my ideas of "flagging" when killing innocents etc etc but I wont write anything here.

I don't see any need for developer additions there, so long as player factions can collectively own property, that should happen on its own. Imo a guild should be nothing more than a collection of individuals, which is more than powerful enough. As far as avoiding combat unless you can win, admittedly to some people that might svck the fun out of it, but to other's it is the core of their art of war "Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory." Note that Sun Tzu is also attributed to the wisdom that a smart warrior knows also he cannot always win and overusing this (or any strategy) will have consequences.
You can be prepared to engage in PvP without going around picking fights in the hope of gaining loot. Offing a competitor in a PvE race for a rare item should be reward enough for the risk of him(/her) doing the same to you, if you're obsessed with equipment+1 like everyone seems to be.

On topic sort of, that ^^ IS the fear I want to fell, not only could there be a deathclaw around the corner of this shelter from a wind blowing up radioactive dust, but as I wander around a pack of bandits may take a fancy to my proudly bulging bag of caps or that the unknown stranger also looking for old man Bob's lost plasma gun might shoot me in the back just as I find it. I consent to it. I ******* CONSENT TO IT! Why do games studios have to fight and die? War, war never changes : (

As far as player factions go, PvP could play a huge rule in gain/losses. For example, if faction A needs food but faction B constantly raids thier caravans, than faction A could possibly loss territory because they are unable to support thier population. It all depends on how the devs impliment it though. I really hope they do something more than the generic "fight over land"/"fight for leet gear"/"fight for leet resources". Look up the thread labeled "guilds" for a better idea of how i feel player factions and faction battle should be handled.

I noticed you put "pvp" will be consensual. I assume they will have a "always flagged" server. Atleast I hope they do as I want to always have pvp on not just "when I feel like it" Otherwise there is no fear... unless they can program npcs to ambush you.

Severe death penalties is a thing of the past. The very first mmo's had a string death penalty in the form of stacking xp penalties for instance. This was a horrible idea and me for once stopped playing more than 1 game cause of this. COH + some other game i cant even remeber.

There should defenetly be a penalty, but not in the form of diminishing xp or loosing cash (unless you can store cash in a bank or so)

Any mechanic that makes you loose time you already have invested in the game and forces you to either repeat the content or forces you to progress slower as a consecvense of a bad decition should most defenetly be scrapped at once.

However i do agree that the fear element is a good element, but not in the form of giving penalties to the player in any form. Good game design and clever mechanics can most defenetly create an element of fear.
Being ressurected at a ressurection point in a close settlement aswell as a repair cost or something like that should be enough. Some other game i played solved this perfectly by having you walk back to your corpse. This is a great idea since you cant use death as a teleport after you finished your quests.

Games are about having fun, not being griefed by the developers. There is only 1 working motivation factor when it comes to games, thats reward, not punishment.

Well, in FO1+2 most of the random encounters were essentially you being ambushed by NPCs, including super mutants, deathclaws, and Winnomangos.

Right... but how do you program that in a 3d world with npcs? Most of the time you can see a NPC or scout an area or know ahead of time that its comming... which isn't an ambush. A true ambush would have to be something randomly spawned on top of you or near you. And that isn't something easy to program in any stretch of the imagination... thats why a full-on pvp server would probably be a better bet for me as the randomness factor comes from other players, not so much npcs. Atleast in my experiance with mmo's.

That depends on if they're going to use an open world system, or a world map system like in FO1+2. Personally i'm hoping for the later.