I have been playing a lot of Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas and I cannot figure out a way to intertwine VATS and Action Points in the MMO world. Now I know why VATS was originally developed for the TBS and I think Bethesda did an amazing job of bringing it into the last Fallouts, but how will VATS work when you're both playing in real time? I was think that you prepare where you want your character to shoot and by hitting a button to activate your VATS mode it would just automatically aim for the part that you already specified, but that still kills what VATS was all about and ruins the point of having Action Points. If anyone on here has any clue what they might do with VATS let me know.

Don't count on seeing VATs in FOOL. However, there almost definately will be some form of targeted shot system like in FO1+2, how it's going to work is anyone's guess, but there have been several good, well thought out sugestions here on the forums.

Action points would be easy to encorperate into FOOL, and there are 2 solid ways to do so that i can think of off the top of my head. One is to have them be like MP is in most fantasy MMOs in regards to spells, you have a pool, you shoot, swing, punch, ect and it costs action points which recharge a set percentage over time. A larger pool would mean you can do more, and you recharge more points at a time. The other option would be to scrap a degrading pool of points and just have action points be a set value that determines how fast you shoot, swing, punch, throw, ect. A higher value would mean you can pull the trigger faster than someone with a lower value.

See I'm still looking at Project V13 as though it will be an MMO-FPS-RPG, so if they are building it just as a MMORPG you're most likely right, but let's hope you're not. No offense, I want this to not just be what level you are and how fast can you click, but instead, how good are you and how long have you played. I want a game where if you are extremely good at it, a level one can kill a level 20 or 30 that has no skill. There are plenty of ways that an FPS can be an MMO and plenty of stats that as you raise in level affect your skills.

I'm starting to loose hope in the game from all the posts on here, it's seeming like too many are looking for WoW in the game, not Eve.

Eecer... no offense buddy but this probably isn't the game for you.

There are very, very many reasons to not make this a pure fps. Lag, for one. Anyone without a very good connection is automatically at a disadvantage. Twitch is not something that many RPers want to play with. (Twitch being how fast you can aim shoot duck dodge and dive) Most RPers like to take their time and enjoy the game, the environment and the setting. We play mmo's for the strategic value, because there is more thought process then simply, use this cover aim at head or leg as fast as you can and shoot. Third! Hackers love to prey on pure fps mmos. Because they are SOOOOOO easy to hack. This is because of hardware constraints on the server. If you have the server "validate" everything then there will be a tremendous amount of lag. So most FPS mmos end up putting some of the stuff client side, such as aiming and how fast you are shooting. Which is great and reduces lag a ton... but gives hackers plenty of opportunity to make aim bots and god mods. As we've all seen before hackers can EASILY completely ruin the game. Why fight a battle against hackers when you don't have to? Fourth. Not everyone wants to pvp in mmo's. Thus restricting pvp to either PVP servers or sanctioned pvp (Flagging) They already stated this game will be a pve game with pvp aspects, not the other way around.

When you look at all of these issues, it just doesn't seem feasible for a mmo to be completely built on fps and players themselves. A few games have tried this. Face of Mankind did.. and they are free to play with about a subscription base of 10000 at the most. Was it a cool idea? Yes, just not feasible in todays software/hardware restrictions. Neocron did, and it was wildly popular for about a month when the bugs / lag / hackers ruined it

I understand that there are a lot of technical issues with building a game to that degree. I love strategy as well. I like games that aren't just run and gun, I like a story, I like creating my own character, but I also like games where you make decisions. I will say that everyone is approaching this game as though it will be WoW with Fallout looks. That just disappointing. I would think that people who love Fallout would want to build their own society, generate what they want, and destroy what they want. I think that's the other problem I find with MMOs today, the people just want to run around and level up their character but don't want the world to be real. Why not have the wastelands be a place where people can kill you if they want? Why not have the chaos that is true to Fallout? The world that Fallout is in now isn't one where people respect others and try to be nice, it's a world of power and wanting to take control of what they can. I would think that they could at least develop it like Global Agenda with a little more to it, but that's just my opinion. Maybe I should just get some money and a mod team together to build a Online Mod for New Vegas

But I will agree with you that I think I'm looking at the wrong game for what I want, and even if I am disappointed in Project V13, luckily Bethesda will continue to make the awesome Fallouts that I do love.

Beth only made one FO, NV was made by Obsidian.

Unfortunately, at this point, we don't know what FOOL is going to offer. It could be more of a FPS/TPS style combat, or it could be more of a select target and roll your forehead on the keyboard style combat. Until more info is released, we just don't know.

Oh, and my suggestions for a "vats" type system could easily be incorperated into a FPS/TPS style combat system. The one with an action point pool would seem pretty clunky however, but your number of action points determining your rate of fire could work like a charm.

I, for one, would like to see a REALTIME version of VATS. It has the VATS interface, but your "sights" are live and you move and aim onto a moving target with a moving %-chance. Just like real life! No game "pause".

If target is ducking and diving - your targetting computer can display (depending on your skill) your chance of hitting that particular bodypart.

Now while VATS mode is "on", you are getting assistance from the Targetting computer, and thus your hit-chance improves by a certain % (depending on the CPU/software/upgrades you have in your Pipboy).

However... while using this mode... you physically "slow down" to stabalize the shot (much like a sniper would)... and thus are an easier target as well!

Ofcourse, Line of Sight, use of terrain to advantage, crouching, and prone position, straffing, smoke bombs, weather (fog/rain) will make more difference.

Taking notes, devs?
Wastelander since C=64!

Awaiting Alpha/Beta testing!

Well, from some of Chris's posts, i doubt any of our suggestions are going to effect much of the game, i remember one post where he said in game dev everything is thought out before the actual programming starts, which, from a business standpoint, makes sense. I could be wrong though.

We try to read as much as possible, but lately, it's been hard to keep up with everything! ^_^

Some things are pretty locked down, like the combat system. We had a strong concept for the combat system from the very beginning. It's not FO1/2, and it's not VATS. It's a SPECIAL based system that works in a MMO environment. You can say it's specially designed for us. We never intended for it to be a FPS or pure shooter. Character skill and stats are very important to the combat system. Probably 50% of the equation. Character gear, player skill, decision making and timing make up the other half.

Like I've said in the past, what gets said here does influence us, naturally, but we do have a very strong vision for the game, so we're not rewriting it based on what we read.

There have been more than a few moments where this forum has made us realize that there was something missing (hey, it's a big game design, there are gaps here and there) or we could tweak it one way or another because we hadn't fully fleshed out that particular feature.

We've got our own strong idea of what the game should be, and we're confident in our skills and experience as game developers. But that doesn't mean we don't listen to the community. Honestly, however, I'd say that it's very difficult for the community to understand the game as a whole at this stage. When we get to beta testing, and people have a chance to play the game instead of discussing it in theory, it will be better for everyone involved.

Thanks for the info Chris, are we looking at a system with multiple abilities with a cooldown, or something more in line with FO1+2 where you really only had 1 ability (speaking of combat here) based on your weapon and targeted shots?

Yay, I can't wait!!! Thanks for the frank reply, Chris, I'm quite content with that answer. Looking forward to hearing/seeing more about Project V13. I suppose we won't see content like that on the offical site until Beta testing starts? I'd definitely like to see more concept art.

Cheers!
Fallout Online Forum - Fan Based Community
http://www.FalloutOnlineForum.com

I'm definitely glad to hear that there will be something new and different, can't wait to see/hear what it will be like!

I just hope a way exists for a low level to kill a high level player unlike a pretty popular space game that starts w/ an E. In that game you have no chance against a player that has months if not years of stats on you.

I completely agree. I think that to a certain extent, a level 20 is going to have better skills then a level 5e, but that doesn't mean that are a better player. People should have their real gaming skills matter as well

In Entropia, Planetside, and Face of Mankind, a newcomer can easily kill a veteran.
Wastelander since C=64!

Awaiting Alpha/Beta testing!

No.

Let everything of Fallout 3 and New Vegas stay in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

No offense, but it is blatantly obvious that you have never played Fallout Tactics.

Look it up (or buy a copy), and check out a feature in the game called Continual Turn-Based combat.

I'm definitely no expert on copyright law, but you shouldn't get your hopes up. While the previous titles did allow you to aim for specific body parts, the VATS system is Bethesda's idea in name, and probably their property.

Epic post Chris, pure epic

I agree with tons0phun, but CTBC was a silly name

It's clear that it's impossible to play bullet time in realtime MMO.

I see V.A.T.S. like this:

It is a simple aiming-helper. Not available at start of game.
You can setup as many configurations as you want in your Pip-Boy with properties:
- what's an enemy (big, medium, small, race, type of weapon, is he aggresive?)
- what weapon do I have (what's it's damage, kind of damage, magazine capacity, ammo left, skill in using it)
- what body parts do you want to aim depending on enemy's health (does he look healthy, nearly dead?)

Besides, you still can use a lot of mapped keys to change any of these properties on the go while fighting, especially body parts. When you click certain key, there shows a little body map of enemy in the corner of the screen and show which body part you want to aim, with characteristic VATS sound.

The better model of V.A.T.S. you buy (the more expensive one), the better is your aiming. Remember, that V.A.T.S. doesn't shoot itself and it needs your help - that's why even you use it it's hard to shoot an enemy in the head.

I see a lot of people complaining about this starting to sound like a WoW type of game. There is a mmo out there that has found a great balance of play style aspects. It is called Cabal. I think the developers and everyone else should take a look at it and use some of the ideas they get from it.