» Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:27 am
Never said you were bad, so no I'm not being like a 10 year old who only argues by telling people that they are bad. Now if I did that, then I'd be a hypocrite.
Remember when you scoffed at the assumption that you were an average player, then proceeded to boast about your stats, and then said you wouldn't brag about yourself? Yeah, a little revision might help your credibility, here.
Most of the time you're fighting with less than 100% energy. Usually you deplete your energy after tanking in armor mode, and then you die by taking a few more hits unarmored, given that your reaction's fast enough to bring armor mode up asap. If you didn't realize that, then I am speechless.
What you're getting at here is a valid point, but your context is way off. He actually corrected you on the use of the ability, and then you proceed to educate him on the simple workings of the module?
Yes, energy management is the area that this module deals in, the more energy you have the greater the chance that armor mode will last during the fight, and having reduced drain from damage is great.
However, your initial appraisal of the ability was wrong, and yet you seem to be trying to defend youself with semantics. Lets anolyse just how flawed your initial appraisal was. You admit in this post that armor mode adds 35% mitigation flat. This is correct. Then why did you previously seem to think that armor enhance was so great as to allow you to take somewhere between *1.5-2 more shots?
Anyone with a working understanding of math, as you surely must have with your superiority compl- er, with your intellect, would tell us that 35%, in this context, gets converted into a multiplier of 1.35 which is a far cry from 1.5.
Are you backtracking and trying to cover an initial lack of comprehension on the module, or just sloppy and talking out of your ass without doing the proper work to back up your claims?
Anyway, Armor Enhance negates that problem, you will almost NEVER run out of energy due to absorbing damage. You would actually die before all your energy could be used up, so that allows you to tank several more bullets because I've been explaining something simple that everyone gets in order to add filler to my post?
Lets truncate things a bit here..
Then we have a bad argument of why these popular modules are rigged. Nano Recharge and Energy Transfer does require energy management. If you just run into the fight with 20% energy, you're not going to survive, and they're not going to give you anything.
If you kill someone right after a fight and another guy pops up, Nano Recharge's effects don't kick in because if they shoot you fast enough, you can't regenerate. You're still going to have to find cover to regenerate. It's just a module that lets you regenerate faster, it's not going to let you 1v2 very well. That's Energy Transfer's job, but even with that you're still at a disadvantage 1v2ing.
Okay, yes, even using these modules you are not, skill aside, as good as two other people. I should bloody well hope not. But I understand that's not what you're getting at. You're building up to your argument that these modules are for rushing.
Energy Transfer doesn't regain your health, and it only regenerates 50% of your energy. If you survive a big fight, and you continue rushing with that half charged energy pool, someone with a 90% energy pool is going to kill you. So yes, Energy Transfer still needs energy management, because it gives you no advantage over anyone.
You're referencing Energy Transfer II specifically here, for some reason. Okay, lets assume then that Energy Transfer III is a different module or something then.
In that case what you're saying is that you still need to manage your energy bar because you cannot run continuously from one kill to another, as the rushing style lends to. Man, I can't put my finger on it precisely, but something about how you've presented this is paining me. So the second and a half of standing still time between kills that would be necessary, thats the energy management you're talking about, right?
Anyways, the point is lost with the natural progression to Energy Transfer III, which really does allow you to sprint from kill to kill.
Saying that these modules take out energy management is simply ignorant.
Even if you don't have these 2 modules, energy management is all the same. YOU MOVE AT YOUR OWN PACE. You don't go sprinting at full speed all the time if you don't have these modules, it's just that simple. Saying that these modules are rigged because they let you continue sprinting and fighting at faster paces and longer paces doesn't make sense, because they are RUSHING perks, that's what they're for.
Say, if they didn't allow you to sprint and do several other things for longer periods, they WOULDN'T be rushing perks. You realize that when I put it this way, it becomes clear you're simply bashing them because they are doing what they're supposed to do, which is rushing, right?
In a way, you'd be saying that a fast paced rushing style in this game is imba in general.
It's quite suprising that you've managed to write all of this down and still not come to that conclusing yourself.
The fast pacing rushing style that these modules allow a player to do is imbalanced, not the concept of rushing in general. Players are able to rush from kill to kill in stealth, quickly and efficiently getting from one battle site to another, usually unseen.
This is imbalanced due to the great advantage that suprise gives you in this game. The imbalance arises because anyone not using this or a similar combination of rushing modules is a sitting duck who can't afford to sit in stealth most of the time. They are bound to be taken by suprise by a player sprinting in stealth from kill to kill with nanovision constantly running. Are rushers invincible? Far from it. Do they ruin the day of anyone not using the same playstyle? Absolutely.
The only people not vulnerable to players rushing are people who are rushing themselves. Thats where the imbalance arises.
Let's talk about the taboo game series, Call of Duty. Marathon Pro perk allows you to run FOREVER, whereas you can only sprint for about 5 seconds without that perk. Even with such a crazy rushing perk, it's still a campy game. This fortunately is not as campy as COD, are you seriously trying to make this game more campy by nullifying all of the rushing perks' effects? Please, no... Just... No...
Not sure where that came from. The entire idea of having a limited sprint is to keep gameplay slowed down while still allowing for a burst of speed. Lessening the bonuses of the modules in question don't eliminate the rushing playstyle, they limit it so that other playstyles become more viable.
Maybe you're under the impression that the only other method of play is camping, but truth be told, only a certain kind of person has the patience to sit in a corner and wait for someone to happen by.
Most people are moving about, and currently moving about is far too enabled to the point where you rarely need to even stop, except to fire your gun. Reducing this ability does not logically lead to mass camping. Really, campers will be campers in any game you play. Usually they are snipers, but given this game's embarassingly small maps, they only get to pull out that rifle on one of them, effectively.
If these perks make rushing more popular simply because rushing perks are popular in general, then I don't see why anyone would want to discourage rushing. Yes, everyone camping with Cloak + Proximity Alarm in a corner is going to make this a super fun game. That just broke the sarcasm meter... As if people don't whine about the campers in this game enough... Although, all you really need to do is check your corners with Nanovision, but that's another story.
Agreed, there is something attractive to the rushing playstyle, it keeps things fast and exciting. You have also pointed out that it is a very bad thing to come up on someone while low on energy, although this discounts the huge advantage that the element of suprise has in this game, an advantage to which rushers are usually on the recieving end.
But the modules are just too enabling. They give too much freedom to always be on the move. Any combination of modules which does not lend itself to this playstyle is vulnerable to it. This is ultimately what I am getting at, with the current state of these perks there is no weakness to this playstyle, no reason for a player to do anything but this.
I agree with you, I don't want everyone sitting out there camping because it's the best thing to do. But conversely everyone out there rushing because it's the best thing to do is pretty damn lame as well. This flavor of the patch playstyle is a horrible way for gameplay to go.
And to you people that just hate popular things, I can't stress enough that these perks give you ABSOLUTELY NO COMBAT ADVANTAGE (unlike Armor Enhance which is explained above). If everybody's using it, then everybody's on the same, leveled, playing field. That's another reason why it's fair, isn't it?
Well now, these two statements don't logically mesh. If everybody is using them, then yes, it is fair, but why have other perks out there? Especially when the other perks are inferior choices?
And your other point there, that there is absolutely no combat advantage, is absolutely, unredeemably wrong. A skilled player with the jump on another player is going to win, 9/10 times. And these modules offer just that: catching other players with their pants down is the heart and soul of the rushing modules and playstyle. Thus, you should not be able to do do this continuously, as it gives a consistent and serious advantage over all other playstyles.
Well, I just had the biggest facepalm, no make that a facedesk. YOU were reading it wrong. I said "IF" you were arguing that Armor Enhance was rigged, I could see where you're coming from. I'm clearly not saying that you said it's rigged, because even a handicap can tell that the only thing you're whining about is how rushers can rush so well with rushing perks. I don't know, could be possible that some day we're going to whine about how campers can camp so well with camping perks.
English might not be your first language, though. It's not a first language for many people, so I'm not going to be mean and laugh at you, so long as you can comprehend what we're saying.
I'm having trouble deciphering what you're trying to get at here, but really I just don't think you're in a stance to be bashing this guy as much as you have been. You've made a mess of your arguments and you should probably try and hold yourself back from this kind of thing in the future.
Do you know what bragging means? It means you're boasting about your own achievements. Denying it when someone says you're bad, isn't bragging.
My initial appraisal of Armor Enhance isn't wrong. If you're talking about the SCAR, armor mode would at most let you tank 1-3 more shots, if you're talking about normal guns such as the SCARAB or FELINE, then yeah, tanking 1.5 times of what you can normally tank isn't surprising (especially FELINE). With math, yeah, doing simple calculations show that it's impossible to exceed 1.5. However, would an actual head on fight, you would be strafing. The longer they take to kill you, the more bullets you'd have dodged by strafing. If it takes them 2 seconds to kill you, you'd have dodged more than if it took them 1 second to kill you, especially depending on gun skills. Am I the only one being PRACTICAL here? =_=
Doing the direct math like you is assuming that EACH and EVERY SINGLE bullet hits their mark. Unless the guy you're fighting doesn't know how to strafe, or you're using the SCAR that kills them so fast they didn't have time to strafe, or your aim is so marvelous it's like aimbot, that's not going to happen in a head on fight.
Seriously, did anyone try this module before they started arguing with me? How can you not notice that someone with Armor Enhance seems to take way longer to kill? Did you just assume they all had modified hp/energy...? It's not hard figuring these things out if you give it some thought.
I still remember people complaining how noobs were modifying the stat values when the game first came out, except they never paid attention in the killcam and looked for ARMOR ENHANCE in big ass words. To be honest, not that many people were modding their values, it was just lots of people using Armor Enhance because we were all lowbies.
Then I'm surprised at how someone as "technical" as you are could get your facts wrong. Energy Transfer III only refills your energy for 50%, and the guy above was even nice enough to give us a link to the stat page. How you missed it, is beyond me. Besides, it's called Energy Transfer, not Energy RESTORE.
Energy Transfer does allow you to move from kill to kill ABSOLUTELY EVERYTIME in small maps like City Hall, Impact, Terminal, etc. But if you're playing in maps like Sanctuary, Lighthouse, Downed Bird, you're not going to meet someone until you've spent at least half your energy (unless you rest, which would be managing your energy, playing smart) sprinting in cloak. You will usually find 2-3 opponents in a traffic area, so it's possible you could get 3 kills at once if you're lucky, but the rest of the team's going to be elsewhere. Hardly "kill to kill."
And let's call for the scenario that you fight 3 guys head on, and for argument's sake let's say they all come at you 1 after another, allowing you no time to perform natural health or energy regeneration. After fighting the first guy, assume that he shot you as much as you shot him, but you won out in the fight. Like I've mentioned before, your armor mode would've drained all your energy, and with ET III, you get 50% back. You're going to be fighting the next guy with 50%, and the third guy with 50%, chances are they'd kill you with the second guy. To be frank, if someone kills 3 guys simultaneously with ET III, I bet you those 3 guys are so bad that you could kill them with any other perk, not just ET III. You can't just god mode "kill to kill" with this module in that sense.
The only time you would ever see "kill to kill" is if people are not sticking close together, and that they don't notice a huge death icon next to them, indicating that a teammate has been killed, and oh, I don't know, it probably tells you someone's nearby? But what do I know? Let's just ignore that death icon.
Also, no, if you are a decent player that knows how to check your sightlines, you have as much element of surprise as they have on you, considering that you're both in cloak. The hearing range in the game is pretty damn huge, it's hard for someone to sneak up on you unless they have that stealth module that no one uses. There's Nanovision, which a lot of people think is useless, but truth to be told, it makes spotting someone in cloak so much faster when there's a clear blue figure. Play your cards right, and no one should be able to sneak up on you unless you are in a gun fight and the noises drown the sound of their footsteps or distract you from spotting cloaked people.
There's a lot of snipers in this game, but evidently they aren't easy to sneak up on when they're going 20-0. Although, they are rare, because usually snipers unaware of their surroundings are just free food for rushers. You would probably argue how "good" snipers still die to rushers. They die to rushers not because rushers are rigged, it's more like because they only have a sidearm with them, so even if they spot you, it's unlikely they'll win against a SCAR, SCARAB, or a FELINE, or any primary for that matter.
It's not just snipers. Even when you were a lowbie and using your normal guns, moving about but not sprinting all the time because you don't have these modules, you can kill rushers as much as they kill you. You move at your own pace, stop to check sightlines and openings, use Nanovision, it's as simple as that. You can play as well as you can play with or without these rushing perks, only difference is you can't move as fast, which means you don't get as many kills. That does not mean a slower playstyle is at a disadvantage, the more opponents you happen to rush into, the lower your survivability. Rushers take a bigger risk of running into situations they can't survive in, if you don't rush as fast, you have higher chances of survival, but lower chances for kills. The higher the risk, the better the rewards, it's that simple. It's a playstyle, it's a choice.
Call of Duty is a perfect example of why unlimited sprint isn't rigged. Like I mentioned, you move at your own pace. People with Marathon Pro who sprint 24/7 get lots of kills, but they could also get lots of deaths. Some people take a safer path and don't sprint all the time even if they have Marathon Pro. The pace you travel at is your choice, again, the more risks you put yourself at, blah blah blah.
Besides, they have UNLIMITED sprint, whereas in this game, you can sprint for long distances, but hardly FOREVER. I'd like to see someone do the ET + ME + SE setup, running 24/7 and not stopping for a single instance, racking up a 5h1t ton of kills without dying a single time, and not on small maps like Terminal or Impact or City Hall, etc. What a show that would be. It does happen, but hardly.
Then like all other games of the same genre, they all have lots of options. The only way to make a game truly 100% fair is to make everyone use the same thing. If there are other options, and they're not popular, then that's just the way it is. Even a game as "balanced" as the taboo Black Ops usually singles out the FAMAS and AK74U as the most popular weapons. When there's differences, there's always going to be something that STANDS OUT, in life, in everything. Name me one thing that didn't have this pattern, JUST ONE. The only thing I can think of is the "perfect world." Well, dream on.
Lastly, no, these modules don't let you get the jump on someone. You realize that spotting someone takes as much skill as aiming, controlling recoil, and every other concern during combat, right? In fact, spotting is even more important than combat skills in this game. A sniper with the best aim in the world isn't going to do well in FPS games if they can't spot their targets or incoming threats, more so when it's a game with cloaking abilities.
But it's not hard to spot a rusher anyways, like I mentioned the hearing range in this game is huge, even without that hearing module. Furthermore, the moment a teammate is killed, a huge death icon appears. It's really obvious that there's someone nearby, especially if they die in an awkward spot with barely any sightlines. You would then be on the lookout for that infiltrator, and chances are you're going to get the jump on him, because you know which region he is in.
Am I really making a mess of my arguments, or just that you don't understand what I'm saying here? Seems to me like you're bashing me with technical stuff while I'm talking about the practical situations, which is really what matters.
Well, at least you agree with the most important point of this all.
"If everybody is using them, then yes, it is fair, but why have other perks out there? Especially when the other perks are inferior choices?"
I've already explained this, but I'm going to do it again because you people can't get this through your heads.
There's other perks for extra options. AS LONG AS THERE ARE DIFFERENCES, YOU CAN'T HAVE PERFECT BALANCE FOR EACH AND EVERY CHOICE. The ONLY WAY that's possible is if it's a perfect world, or IF ALL CONDITIONS WERE THE SAME.
They say games like StarCraft is VERY balanced, but no one would be retarded enough to say it's PERFECTLY balanced. Because perfection doesn't exist, hasn't school taught you that?
And you trying to strive for perfection is the hilarity of it all. You nerf this and that, it's all cool, but something else will take its place and stand out, it's what I've been saying since the first post (but you all fail to realize that I was only saying that Armor Enhance would be the one to take the place). How long have you been on this planet? If you still haven't realized this, then I fear for humanity.
