How about Single-player (Story mode 1 player), Multi-player (Player vs Player) and Custom/Skirmish (1-4 players vs AI). A player can choose how many AI what kind of enemy's, setting and what missions you want to play, and what objects you want to do.

Then the system will generate an map with all the option that the player want, and every time you play. You will have an different mission, this will increase Crysis 2 game hours! And people that want to play Co-op are happy!

And many people want co-op, sow if Crytek put Custom/Skirmish in it, then they will sell more copies because it will increase game hours and people wanted co-op!

I won't be (Other than, like I said... bargain bin possibly... I'm not paying full price for half the game) That is kinda the point. I'm just voicing my issues with it.

Care to explain how it is half the game, They are releasing a full singleplayer and a full multiplayer, they are giving the player everything that they are offering.

Seems to me that by your standards the majority of games out there are only half games because they dont include your beloved co-op.

BTW i dont believe EA locked the AI out of the multiplayer, it just didnt work. From what i remember reading, it was the way the AI detects the clients that was the problem. When playing the singleplayer your basically the 'host' of the game and the AI understand that your the enemy and your the only person to attack. For multiplayer the 'server' is the 'host' and the AI doesnt recognise the clients. Its just the way the AI was programmed and not that EA locked the AI out. Those co-op mods that were previously posted prove that AI can work in the multiplayer, just with extensive flowgraphs that need to send signals from the server to the clients. Im not experienced with the editor or the AI, but thats how i understand it. Fudsine posted a tutorial on Crymod (http://crymod.com/thread.php?threadid=62786) on how he sent signals from the server to the client.

It's a multiplayer that I, personally, will never use. That makes it only half a playable game for me personally. If it is what you are looking for and are willing to pay for it, then super... not saying that you can't or shouldn't because people's tastes are different.

Personally, I don't buy hardly any new releases unless they have something new and interesting to offer for me, which most don't... so to make a long story short... yes, I really do see most modern games substandard in a lot of ways. The question used to be "can we do this with the current technology?" that limited what a game would be able to do. Largely the answer to that question has become a resounding "yes". Now it has become an issue of cutting corners... case in point, if the way you described it is true, the interaction between the AI and the server. I honestly can't think of a single game (that offers multiplayer at all) in modern history that uses that type of model for data flow. It strikes me as being right up there with "Use root as a basic user account" on my list of good ideas.

That link shows how he was able to make a model he placed in the game make a sound when shot on the client's computer. Nothing else. The backwards programming needed to make such a simple action like "interact with object->something happens" work within this server/client system is not only obscene, but makes any AI more complex than the simple "get shot->make noise" interaction impossible. The amount of data flow needed to make this hellacious workaround function at realtime speed with any kind of mobile and intelligent AI would make any network melt.

The postings that you did before didn't prove that it could be done because those were just ideas... I've seen those sites before, and none of them ever got further than the "idea" phase of development. On one of them, the last news posting used the phrase "When crysis is released....". I could make a page that says that I'm gonna make a mod that lets the game give me hamdjob, but until I actually have a functioning release, I wouldn't really expect people to believe my claims either. As far as I can tell, there is no functional coop mod.

I won't be (Other than, like I said... bargain bin possibly... I'm not paying full price for half the game) That is kinda the point. I'm just voicing my issues with it.

Care to explain how it is half the game, They are releasing a full singleplayer and a full multiplayer, they are giving the player everything that they are offering.

Seems to me that by your standards the majority of games out there are only half games because they dont include your beloved co-op.

BTW i dont believe EA locked the AI out of the multiplayer, it just didnt work. From what i remember reading, it was the way the AI detects the clients that was the problem. When playing the singleplayer your basically the 'host' of the game and the AI understand that your the enemy and your the only person to attack. For multiplayer the 'server' is the 'host' and the AI doesnt recognise the clients. Its just the way the AI was programmed and not that EA locked the AI out. Those co-op mods that were previously posted prove that AI can work in the multiplayer, just with extensive flowgraphs that need to send signals from the server to the clients. Im not experienced with the editor or the AI, but thats how i understand it. Fudsine posted a tutorial on Crymod (http://crymod.com/thread.php?threadid=62786) on how he sent signals from the server to the client.

How about Single-player (Story mode 1 player), Multi-player (Player vs Player) and Custom/Skirmish (1-4 players vs AI). A player can choose how many AI what kind of enemy's, setting and what missions you want to play, and what objects you want to do.

Then the system will generate an map with all the option that the player want, and every time you play. You will have an different mission, this will increase Crysis 2 game hours! And people that want to play Co-op are happy!

And many people want co-op, sow if Crytek put Custom/Skirmish in it, then they will sell more copies because it will increase game hours and people wanted co-op!

I'd be perfectly fine with that. The reason is because with a functional AI in multiplayer, even in such a simple gamemode, opens it up for modification and expansion by the modder community, who, I guarantee, would immediately start producing coop campaigns, more than likely including a mod of the entire single player campaign. I'm ok with them not putting much effort into it, as long as the core is functionally present and open to being modded.

Co-op is great, but it wouldn't fit into crysis 2's story very well.

However, co-op in games is awesome, and i'm very much looking forward to battlefield 3's co-op.
YEA, BF3!!!

Anyways, competitive multiplayer is what sells the game for me. I could only buy one game this quarter and it was Bulletstorm vs. Crysis 2 for me. I chose Crysis 2 because of it's great multiplayer offering not to mention the amazing singleplayer campaign. Everyone has their own opinions and preferences but if you are simply here to rant about how Crysis 2 should have co-op, then I suggest you simply don't buy this game.

They had built their AI around singleplayer and had no intention of the AI being used in multiplayer, so it wasnt built with that in mind, i can see why u call that basic data flow (because you want AI in multiplayer), however for what Crytek wanted to achieve it worked perfect for them.

Clearly you didnt understand the point of his flowgraph, yes all it was showing was how to get a model to make a sound to the player when shot, however this isnt even possible in multiplayer without the flowgraph sending the server to client signal, if you placed an AI in multiplayer and shot it, it didnt do anything, Fudsine's flowgraph shows how to make the AI react to the player, from his example you can then build more functions for the AI that can be sent from the server to the client, he wasnt going to post up his entire flowgraph detailing every single server to client flowgraph because it can all be built based off his example.

Btw those links that were posted up arent just ideas, the crysis co-op mod actually worked, there were 4 videos showing multiple players in a server and the AI reacting to each of them (the youtube account has been removed, so videos no longer work), here is the Crymod Thread:
http://www.crymod.com/thread.php?threadid=47988
just reading the thread you can understand that they were able to get the AI working, it was just a very extensive job.

Thankyou for clearing up why you think it is half a game.

Crysis 2 wont be shipping with co-op, however in the editor there appears to be a co-op node for the flowgraphs, seen at some stage in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SbDkyLyBI&feature=player_embedded
here is an image of it: http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7825/coopcrysis2.jpg
maybe it will be possible for modders to add it easier this time around.

Co-op is great, but it wouldn't fit into crysis 2's story very well.

However, co-op in games is awesome, and i'm very much looking forward to battlefield 3's co-op.
YEA, BF3!!!

Anyways, competitive multiplayer is what sells the game for me. I could only buy one game this quarter and it was Bulletstorm vs. Crysis 2 for me. I chose Crysis 2 because of it's great multiplayer offering not to mention the amazing singleplayer campaign. Everyone has their own opinions and preferences but if you are simply here to rant about how Crysis 2 should have co-op, then I suggest you simply don't buy this game.

I'm not, at least not for a couple of years. I have no interest in participating in the multiplayer community, and it isn't like the single player campaign is going to be any different 10 years from now, other than patches to fix bugs. I can wait until its bargain rack at Walmart. (That actually reminds me... I saw FarCry 2 on the bargain rack at officemax. I've been meaning to try that one)

They had built their AI around singleplayer and had no intention of the AI being used in multiplayer, so it wasnt built with that in mind, i can see why u call that basic data flow (because you want AI in multiplayer), however for what Crytek wanted to achieve it worked perfect for them.

Clearly you didnt understand the point of his flowgraph, yes all it was showing was how to get a model to make a sound to the player when shot, however this isnt even possible in multiplayer without the flowgraph sending the server to client signal, if you placed an AI in multiplayer and shot it, it didnt do anything, Fudsine's flowgraph shows how to make the AI react to the player, from his example you can then build more functions for the AI that can be sent from the server to the client, he wasnt going to post up his entire flowgraph detailing every single server to client flowgraph because it can all be built based off his example.

Btw those links that were posted up arent just ideas, the crysis co-op mod actually worked, there were 4 videos showing multiple players in a server and the AI reacting to each of them (the youtube account has been removed, so videos no longer work), here is the Crymod Thread:
http://www.crymod.com/thread.php?threadid=47988
just reading the thread you can understand that they were able to get the AI working, it was just a very extensive job.

Thankyou for clearing up why you think it is half a game.

Crysis 2 wont be shipping with co-op, however in the editor there appears to be a co-op node for the flowgraphs, seen at some stage in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SbDkyLyBI&feature=player_embedded
here is an image of it: http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7825/coopcrysis2.jpg
maybe it will be possible for modders to add it easier this time around.


Interesting. I understood how it could work, but even besides the effort going in to make it work, the amount of proximity triggers tied to every function for every AI mesh in the game and the flow between server to client to server again would bog things down to nearly a standstill (and from what I'm finding in the thread, it seems to be one of the issues they were running into... the AI bogging down the network, even with the limited amount of models they had running), not to mention that the amount of necessary moving parts (so to speak) interacting with eachother would make debugging a near impossible task. I understand why the developers of the game did it that way; I just think it shows a lack of foresight that severely limited its usefulness. The usual model has the player character treated as a client separate from the game server running the AI, even in single player mode on one terminal, so even if it wasn't used initially it still retained the functionality to attach and detach modular clients without having to rewrite (at least not significantly) how the game server interacted with, and shared data with, any particular player.

Hopefully it is the case that they made an adjustment on how the server/client system works, allowing AI to work. If so, then I may give it a go. I'll probably be back after it has come out to see what is being said about the development tools.

Good idea, I certainly hope you end up buying the game as just the singleplayer alone looks as tho its going to be brilliant and is worth the purchase for myself and i dont usually play the singleplayer of games.

It would be nice to have co-op, but I hate playing co-op with people who run ahead and rush the game, I like taking my time in single players. taking in the full experience the game has to offer.

I have a question: exactly how would you implement Co-Op in singleplayer?
You'd have to add AI squaddies, who would inevitably fubar the singleplayer gaming experience.

Dude, I love CoOp, I don't care what others say, it makes the game just that much funner/harder, it really adds to the game play too. Nothing like messing with the AI's heads.

Yeah, except that you can't do it without making it the ONLY mode. It'd practically eliminate the coreographed sandbox element in a campaign, making it unplayable without a partner. It also wouldn't fit with the story.

I think it is absolutely ridicuous that some people are saying co-op isn't Crysis. That sort of logic doesn't make any sense. What is the purpose of co-op, it's to share the experience of the story with another person(s).

Have any of you played Grand Theft Auto using a co-op mod, the game becomes 100x for fun and thats a game specifically designed to be single player.

I have a question: exactly how would you implement Co-Op in singleplayer?
You'd have to add AI squaddies, who would inevitably fubar the singleplayer gaming experience.

No you don't. Lot's of games that have co-op don't require AI squad members at all. Instead of one guy running through the game, you have 2 (or 3 or 4)guys running through the game. Single player is still by yourself and is completely unaffected. They do it by scaling up the number and difficulty of bad guys in relation to the number of player clients that are in the game. Say a building on easy mode with one player has 8 enemy dudes in it with easy AI set... With 2 players on easy mode it may instead have 12 dudes with normal AI set... and so on and so forth. Setting a property value on a spawnable based on the difficulty setting and number of players is literally 2 lines of code. By doing so, even if the coop experience through the single player campaign is "meh" because of scaling and balance issues, the framework for it is established for modders to do it right in their own campaigns.