I think that sums things up wonderfully.

Well during my first 300 hour foray into Vanilla Oblivion and its concurrent add-ons, i found the world very immersive and exciting, of course this was before I saw the wonder of Modblvion. I guess some people see Bethesda's creations as huge sandboxes which essentially provide the framework for more "in-depth" creations. My guess as to why some would consider it generic is due to its immense size, very hard to make that much content and make it all unique. For the most part its generic fantasy forest with some scattered mountains and essentially 4 types of dungeons being caves, forts, ayleid ruins and Oblivion gates. Thats not what makes it generic for me however, for me its more about game mechanics that arent very "deep". A prime example of this is in the magic system, a level 1 Flare spell works the same as a Mastery level fireball spell when in most games the mastery spell would have some different effects and be noticeably different. Also within the guild system and npc interactions this generic feel can be found. However the sandbox that is created is still amazing none the less. Just think of all the features that are often not seen in many "open" world RPG's. Enchanting, Alchemy,Spell Creation, Guild progression, exploration, countless dungeons, gear and class combos. Not to mention the ability to be and do whatever you want, want to spend 3 hours of real time clearing out a dungeon and setting it up as your home, you can do that. Want to be a goblin hating thief who uses illusion and daggers, why you can do that too. Hey, maybe you just want to live as a beggar and troll sewers of the IC, well that options there as well. In no other RPG are options this broad and often this immersible. Sure games like DoA may boast a well crafted story, a fantastic class progression system and unique dungeons and quests, but once you choose your class the game is still pre-determined for you. In fact its this freedom first formula that allows many of these mods to be created and also brings the developer under harsh criticism from various source. But hell, the game is popular and has one of the most loyal fanbases for any media that ive ever seen so they must be doing something right.

Hopefully with the ability to create a 2nd game for the Xbox 360, something which Bethesda hasnt been able to do since Arena, they will be able to find a nice balance between graphics, in depth game mechanics and with this new engine a much more stable and interesting world.

Edit: The depth of this game is really found in the eye of the player and also within the entire universe that Bethesda has crafted, just look at the lore section of the forums if you dont believe me.

Yes, it is well crafted. However, well crafted doesn't mean it can't be generic. Something can be be amazing technically, for instance if I draw a tree very well, ie it looks like real life, but I don't put anything (any feeling, any thought, anything from me) in the drawing beside the reproduction of the tree.... well, it's a good drawing, but there's not much in it. Another example: I'm learning how to draw hands, and while my drawings of hands may look good technically, there are really very bland and generic since they are just exercises.
That's how I feel about Oblivion :shrug:

It could be argued that there is just as much lore in Oblivion as in Morrowind. Perhaps more.

However it may not seem that way to some who started with Morrowind because a lot of the lore is the same lore that is in Morrowind. And there is lots of new stuff to learn about like the Aylieds, Goblins and their background, the barriers with Oblivion, Sheogorath's background, the Brush of Truepaint, the Grey Fox, Ancestor Moths, Vampires, the unsubstantiated theory that Nirn is really a part of Oblivion, the history of the Imperial City include White Gold tower, lots of books, etc, etc, etc.

I don't get the comment that there is generic lore in TES IV.

Its true that many of the books are repeated from game to game so whichever you play the first will affect your impression, I'll give you that.
Still, much of the MQ and Mages Guild quests in MW was specifically about learning the lore. Apart from The Path of Dawn and Lifting the Vale the lore in Oblivion was just background. It wasn't worked into the quests.
Much of the most interesting lore was added by KotN and SI which were better in this regard than Oblivion itself.

I find myself agreeing with what Thomas Kaira said in his post about the culture, Oblivion Crisis and all that stuff.

I enjoyed ( and enjoying ) Oblivion, but IMHO, the only two parts when the Oblivion Crisis felt like something important, is when you hear about Kvatch, and in the battle near Bruma when the Great Gate opens. The rest is just meh. You walk around Cyrodiil and you're like, "Oh, the 348238th Oblivion Gate just opened here. I'm going to ignore it in 3... 2... 1... now.".

I don't want to sound like a troll, but if someone says that closing gates is just interesting and not because you get a Sigil Stone, I'm going to scream "EPIC LIES!" all over the boards.

Okay, I was just kidding, but aside from getting a new shiny Sigil Stone, there's no real reason to close the gates. Yes, they look menacing, but they don't FEEL like it.


Also, vanilla Oblivion Cyrodiil's caves have basically all the same kind of light colors and illuminations. That's why they look "generic". But I'm not really blaming the game about that, since that was caused by Morrowind being more... "alienish".

One point I think we're all missing is that the feeling that we've seen the same dungeon a thousand times, comes because Oblivion is one of the few games you play long enough to get that feeling.

There are so many games where you've done everything and been everywhere after 20 hours of play. Those can get away with only using assets once, and not building reusable tile-sets that can be re-assembled in multiple combinations, and so they don't come with Construction Sets that let you extend the game even further (and thus adding to the "generic" feeling). How long have you spent with EACH of your Oblivion characters? And how many times have you played through again with a different one?

Great posts here, everyone. I wish I had time to respond to everybody because there are posts that make a lot of sense to me now, even if I don't agree with all of them. I'll pick Sergiroth's post, just because it's the most recent and it brings up stuff others haven't commented on, yet.



At least we have the choice to ignore it though. I've played other games (on consoles, mind you) where you didn't have this choice. Personally, I really dug coming up to a new gate, watching the sky go red, the dry thunder striking noises in the distance, etc. It got addicting for me, to be honest. I didn't close each and every gate I came upon, as I do have somewhat of a life. Maybe it's me, but the whole process of dealing with a new gate never got old. I'm actually missing them show up in my games. :confused:



Guess I'm a liar then. Lol. I love the challenge of sneaking up on Oblivion's enemies once I'm in the gate. Some of them are just bad-ass. They catch me by surprise occasionally, too.

The Oblivion worlds are all generic though. Actually, I never brought this up in the OP, but if there's one thing that is generic, it certainly is the "other side" of the gate. I think I read at UESP that they used 7 different "worlds" or something



This makes sense. I brought this up (kinda) in the OP, though. There are some generic (repeated) features in the caves and forts for sure.

I respect your opinion, but with "because Oblivion is one of the few games you play long enough to get that feeling", it sounds like you're ignoring the existence of Morrowind and the other Elder Scrolls games.