I disabled the 'points of interest' markers for Fallout 3 with a mod right from the first playthrough, it was the best thing I've ever done.

I guess that's reasonable, I'm the sort of player who will explore every last nook and crannie irregardless of how they implement the compass/map/poitns of interest so it doesn't matter too much to me.

I imagine he means the Points Of Interest marks (nearby mines/shrines/etc).

Personally, I like those - given how dense some of the terrain can get (and I imagine Skyrim will be more like Morrowind than Oblivion, with more view-blocking terrain), without those marks you'd never find alot of the dungeons. I'm all in favor of exploring, love to do it.... but at some point, the gameplay has to be more important than "realism" - the designers don't really have much incentive to make a game where most players will miss alot of the content they design.

(Fallout 3 gives me both support for and against this thought.... there were a number of "unmarked" locations, that you could only see as doorways on the "local" map, not as Points Of Interest. And finding them was a nice surprise - but it was also annoying knowing that I probably missed a bunch and would need to use a hint guide to find them. Also, constantly interrupting your walking to pull out the pipboy and stare at the local map to see if there was an unobvious door nearby really messed with the flow of playing.)

how bout you get tape and put it over the compass, and then find a quest (a rare one without a quest marker) your never going to do and make it active quest. there are lots of ways to get around it

Huh? You're crazy. If games like Morrowind, Oblivion, FO3, and Skyrim aren't good sandbox games, then I must be hugely confused about what a sanbox game is.

If you think it will fail... then fine, ill respect your opinion. I honestly like the point of interest markers. but, that is just my opinion.

Will it bother you, maybe.

to say it will fail as a sandbox game is hyperbole.

It certainly seems that it would make a lot of folks happy if Skyrim can implement these features.

I would hope that if there is a toggle for the icons that it is separate from the toggle for quest markers.

I rather enjoy wandering the wilderness in Oblivion, or the Mojave in FNV, for example, eager to discover new locations hinted at by the faint icon on the compass.

Lol if you lack the willpower to enjoy the game the way you want to enjoy it because there's a map marker and choose to not buy the game at all because of that (I call [censored]), then your loss.

So a "sandbox" game is one that you can get lost in easily? I thought it was one that I could explore and experience at my own pace in an open world...

But I think I know what you guys are getting at. You think getting lost along the way makes finding the dwemer box even more rewarding.

I support the movement to get a toggle switch going for the on-screen compass.

My proposal:
- Dialogue puts map markers on your map.
- You can interact with or purchase map markers to rare/exotic locations from hunters/rangers/scouts
- Toggle switch for compass.

I found the compass markers as aids to the sandbox. Without them, it became a quicksand box, because, used to games like Daggerfall and Arena, all I saw was a void on my map.

In Oblivion, the 'magical knowledge' of the locations of landmarks of interest helped with the exploration, giving an incentive to push on and find more by hinting at the locations of interesting stuff (I got a mod that made Wayshrines and doomstones compass markers, since they are such notable landmarks). When I was running to a quest destination, I'd easily get sidetracked by all the alchemy ingredients along the road, every side passage in a cave, and every landmark along the road. If I came across a ruin, I bemoaned the inability to mark it as "Come back later", so I could always have something to do.

It became a fun exploration quest to fill up my map with the landmarks. I wouldn't have been able to do that had I not had such information.

Whenever I was on a quest in a dungeon, I followed the ethos of "Never leave any side passages unexplored. Otherwise, you'll get ambushed by the guys within them on your way out. Also, the sword of +40 Epic is down one of them". A holdover from my D&D games. I generally actively avoided heading straight for the quest marker, choosing to locate all the mushrooms, chests, and bad guys to kill first.

I never got "Tunnel Vision", as you put it.

And part of the TES sandbox is choosing which quests to complete. I don't have to explore if I feel like getting some objectives completed quickly. I can get in, get out, get paid, and come back later when I'm done with the story.

Not getting lost, no. Not having pinpoint GPS locator beacons is not the same as "wanting to get lost". I just feel like I am being "herded" toward the target with the current system. A menu option to toggle the indicators on/off would be much appreciated. It just feels more like an actual adventure without the magical GPS system.

So other points of interest will appear on your map when you get near them...

How is that any different from the magic compass showing it when you get near?

It is not a homing arrow that points me exactly where to go. It is like spotting something in the distance and making a note of heading in that direction instead of honing in on a beacon.

Really, It's not.
Fallout 1 did have quest markers on the map. If anything, it was worse, as you could click it, head there, and walk off, missing everything in between.

OP seems to be full with negativity. Skyrim will be great.

It must be what I ate for breakfast, I am usually an optimist when it comes to the future.

Again, landmarks showing up on the compass is exactly the same, only it doesn't remember the place until you go there yourself...

I would like to assume that my characters would be smart enough to flag noticeable landmarks on their map for future reference. Like seeing a collection of huts on a mountain on the other side of a valley.... would not be hard to form a estimate of the location.

Remember: Don't let other's opinions or experiences define your own. (Doing so nearly drove me to suicide)

If you never felt Map Markers made the world less open prior to reading the statement in that thread, then they probably don't. And part of the sandbox is deciding what quests are worthwhile, and choosing when to home in on an objective, or take time to eat the flowers.

So the reason the sandbox will be bad because places won't register until you get there yourself, you know, to chart it or something?

... I'm honestly confused what your problem is...

If that's your choice then so be it. Your money, so you choose how and where you want to spend it. Though I find it hard to believe that you will actually stay true to your words in the quote above when Skyrim hits the store shelves... Just my opinion on that and nothing else. I could be wrong but oh well.