I'm having a bit of a problem with my first Oblivion Gate( I'm using OOO and MMM ).

I'm around level 23, and have entered the Kvatch Oblivion Gate. Outside the towers, the amounts of enemies ( 2-3 at most )were doable but here I ran into my first problem: Almost all were Xivilai! When I directly entered the gate I encountered a Daedroth and some hounds as well, but except that it was 95% Xivilai and a couple of Lesser Balrogs ( whom I can't, by the way, defeat except with cheesing. Is there some kind of tactic for them? ) and one lone Dremora Scout.

I thought MMM would make a lot of different creatures spawn, so am I having some kind of bug or is this normal?

Well, soon after I entered my first tower and it became rediculous. In the first room where 3 Xivilai and 2 Dremora Valkynaz armed with Daedric weapons ( I'm still at glass weapons and Dwemer Armor...). After a great amount of time and reloading I finally managed to defeat these enemies. Then I entered the next room, dispatched ( in the first area ) 1 Dremora Valkynaz, and boldly entered the next area of the room and I was promptly greeted by 5 [censored] Dremora Valkynaz, in one small room! This is when I quit and decided to ask for help here.

Is this normal? Is everybody some kind of God to be able to deal with that large amount of better equipped and stronger enemies? So far, I haven't had any complaints about OOO and MMM difficulty but this is breaking me down.
Maybe it's a bug or incompatibility or some such?
In that case, here is my load order:

Oblivion.esm
Jog_X_Mod.esm
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm
Mart's Monster Mod.esm
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esm
TamrielTravellers.esm
Kvatch Rebuilt.esm
Open Cities Resources.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
Atmospheric Loading Screens - Original Text.esp
ln.esp
Book Jackets Oblivion.esp
7lbsBedrolls-OBSE.esp
Oscars_Nicer_Grass-3346.esp
Reznod_Mannequin.esp
Spell Delete And Item Remove.esp
Living Economy.esp
Living Economy - Items.esp
SentientWeapon.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
OOO-Water_Weeds.esp
OOO-Container_Trap_Instant_Effects.esp
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp
TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp
TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp
ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp
OOO-WaterFish.esp
Ivellon.esp
OCC-Ivellon-Patch.esp
300_Artifacts.esp
Artefacts of the Ancestors.esp
Kvatch Rebuilt.esp
OCC-KR-Patch.esp
Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp
KumikoManor.esp
Malevolent.esp
MountainTower.esp
thievery.esp
VaultsofCyrodiil.esp
za_bankmod.esp
Damarask.esp
The Lost Spires.esp
Mighty Umbra.esp
mythsandlegends.esp
bartholm.esp
Open Cities New Sheoth.esp
Open Cities Outer Districts.esp
Open Cities Full.esp
OCC-Lost Spires-Patch.esp
OCC-OOO-Patch.esp
Harvest [Flora].esp
Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp
P1DkeyChain.esp
Quest Award Leveling SI.esp
Quest Award Leveller.esp
SupremeMagicka.esp
SM_ShiveringIsles.esp
SM_OOO.esp
SM_MMM.esp
SM_VanillaSpells.esp
SM_Scrolls.esp
MidasSpells.esp
OC+Midas Magic Patch.esp
Enhanced Mercantile Progress.esp
Level_Rates_Modified_x2.esp
Streamline 3.1.esp
100% Harvest Chance.esp
100% Harvest Chance Shivering Isles.esp

Seems normal. The Kvatch gate is notorious for being hard. You could try one of the esp's that reduces spawns, for example Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Reduced.esp. And/or reducing the difficulty a bit. As for Lesser Balrogs, try dealing with them from a distance. It takes a while, but that's what I did.

...and I thought of entering Kvatch gate at level 5 at one point... guess I'm going to do the other 100+ quests first before I come back to the main quest... bliviongate:

I haven't met any Balrogs yet, but use Frost against them. Since they're made of fire and all.

Also, the latest MMM release includes .esps to get rid of Balrogs and other foes, or reduce the spawn rates.

Lesser Balrogs? They're evil. I tend to just use some frost spells that have weakness to frost combined into them(such as Banof's Bloody Icicle, and plenty of Spell Tomes touch spells(the journeyman one has 75% for 6 seconds, which really helps), then finish it with a massive frost spell.
I use LAME, so the spells contained in it really help.
Failing that, I'm guessing that a massive healing effect potion and a damn good frost enchanted weapon could help. I'd stick with a bow for safety sake, though.

Actually, I believe the Kvatch gate can be easier for you now. You will not see any lesser Balrogs there at level 5.

That's the point: this is a very strictly leveled game. Fran and Mart shake it up a bit, and Oscuro really changes the playing field completely, but otherwise, the major way they piled on a lot of difficulty was to increase numbers of attackers. So if you really want a challenge, check out those gates after you've achieved a lot of levels. Alternatively, go earlier, grab a bunch of companions, or learn the joys of the console DISABLE command.

Hm... thanks fable2 and NiceOne... I'll give it a try then... still afraid I'll wetting my pants, though.... :cold:

I had a similar problem. In my games (OOO + MMM), the Kvatch-related areas seemed to level with me, but other gates didn't. When I did the Kvatch quests at 20+, The Kvatch gate, the chapel undercroft, the Kvatch keep area, etc. were all crawling with high level daedra. (I don't use any reduced spawn rate esps, though I really should look into that.) Oddly enough, the next Oblivion gate after that had scamps and other easy dudes to kill. So if you don't want to have a hard time with Kvatch, you should try going there at a really low level, or a really high level.

There is nothing odd in the Kvatch gate being much harder than the others. The Kvatch gate was part of a major invasion to take an entire city, while most other gates are just randomly popping up to create chaos and fear.

Is this different with FCOM, I did K'vatch at level 2.

As for tips on how to take on hard places when using OOO/FCOM:

AR is very important for melee chars. I always have Alteration as a major to be able to boost it with a Shield spell and/or use Alchemy for potions.
Daedra/Dremora are weak to shock (as are OOO's spectrals). Especially on lower levels I always have a staff with shock spells as a backup.
Retreating through a door is often a good idea as all enemies seldom follow through it so you can often take them on one by one.



It's much harder with MMM/OOO/FCOM.

Balrogs and high-level Dremora will not spawn if your PC is low-level, even in FCOM. The earliest I've ever seen them is around level 12.. sorry, but above Level 20, you're fair game. Like Arkngt said, you can't fight them in a small, enclosed space--even if you're very good with a sword they'll get you up against a wall and hammer you flat. And don't bother trying invisibility--they don't fall for that stuff. Paralyze poisons will put them out for only a second or two, but that's enough to get out of there. Once you get some distance on them (trust me, they can and will follow you through doors!), you can work at killing them one at a time.

(My Level 21 Paladin stepped into a house attached to Charcoal Cave, and ran smack into two Balrogs inside (they must've come up from below)--there wasn't room to even swing his two-handed sword. The only way he was able to survive (and it took several reloads) was luring them outside and using every poison he owned.)

Ah, I see. Good logic.

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I manned up and slowly lured every Dremora out and I've finished the Kvatch Oblivion Gate! ( Although I did cheese the Lesser Balrogs though ). At the end I didn't have any weapons ( they broke ) and almost all my armor was 0. I did have a powerful shock spell that helped.

Sadly, it has gotten worse. You know the part of Kvatch, the area just where you exit the Chapel Underground togheter with your 4 allies?

A Balrog ( not a Lesser one ). A Clanfear Matriarch, along with a clanfear and a clanfear runt. 3 midlevel Dremora. A Magma Fiend. A Rainbow Wyvern. Maybe some others that I missed. All right outside the door where you exit from.

Does anybody want to guess how long I or my allies survived?

There is a fine line between still entertainment and already labor... yours would fall into the labor category for me (not that I have not been in similar situations)...

If you do the gate at level 2 with FCOM, expect to get killed in two or three hits.

Well, I assume you loaded the OOO/MMM combo for the challenge the mods offer because you weren't satisfied with what vanilla offered.
As for the Kvatch gate and the Battle for Kvatch Castle, the best plan is to do it before level 5 or ignore the main quest until you have some decent equipment at around level 30 plus.
Even then it can be quite brutal if your not properly prepared.

Heh, I had to literally give up and throw around 6 hours of playing time away, when I last tried the Kvatch gate.


I was level 10-12, and entering one of the towers I was killed from full health in seconds, even though there was only three attackers (dremora), and their summons. Countless reloads, but it just wasn?t possible without cheating, I would have needed 2 minutes to take them out and I only had 2 seconds.



EDIT: And the time before that, I remember that there was (honestly) around 20 enemies, after the undercroft. The undercroft itself had 10 clanfears, so I didn?t even have any of soldiers left. It?s really crazy, but then again as said it?s supposed to be.

Once again you need to use one of the Spawn Rate Reducers esp in order to lower the amount of creatures that you fight. Read the MMM.html Spawn Rates Section for more info on plugins.

With a lower spawn rate plugin your allies have a better chance of winning and staying alive..

From a mechanical standpoint, IMO the best time for a lower-level character to start the MQ is around Lvl 7 ... when you're near the top of the lowest levelled list. Once you hit Lvl 10 (or thereabouts) you're the bottom of the food chain again, and you will die very quickly. The same thing goes at Level 20, you're better off waiting until you're on more even footing with the enemies...

Or do it before lvl 3..

Kvatch is all under MMM control in MMM/MMMforFrans/MMMforOOO/and UFCOM..fcom adds a new OOO to leveledlist but that is all..The Kvatch Level Scaling is the same under any MMM config..