Unsure if this info has reached ears yet but here we go.

Unlike previous information it's confirmed in The Official PS Magazine's July 2011 edition that birthsigns are still in.

They are gained/list in a different way though. Personally t reminds me of birthstonss kind of. Anyways.

The mag states Skyrim's 13 birthsigns which are apart of the 3 constellations(The new "Look up to the heavens" skill tree) still impart skill boosts and special powers. However you don't pick them in the beginning. Instead they're now "activated through large standing stones, or Doomstones. "

Now you can still only be attached to one "birthsign" at a time but this way you can swap them if you dislike one.

I think this is right. It's possible that some of the birthstones could bestow abilities instead of powers, such as the Atronarch. I only mention this because that particular birthsign was popular

Otherwise I believe you're correct, and I'll be happy to cast Turn Undead spells outside of Conjuration (Ritual Birthsign)

Sure. But anyways the mag confirms birthsigns and their powers are in, but it's now more flexible which I don't mind.

Glad Bethesda stuck with the extra level of customization.

Birthsigns are not in. Birthsign stones (a type of doomstones) are in. There is a pretty big difference. Here's a post I wrote before on a previous thread:

"Something interesting to consider (from http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:New_%27Doomstones%27_Series!):

"I always carefully research my subjects," Quill-Weave says, "and I find no evidence at all to support the popular notion that these runestones were once artifacts of great magical power." She noted that thirteen of these stones are associated with the common birthsigns by which people have always marked the aspects of the heavens when children are born. "Such stones as the 'Mage Stone' and the 'Serpent Stone' were certainly associated with the primitive sky worships of the Beast Folk of the Mythic Era. Other stones, like the 'Aetherius Stone' and the 'Magnus Stone' were also doubtless associated with other long-forgotten cults."

We never got to understand what the doomstones are in Oblivion. Maybe we will in Skyrim?
Just the word... doom. I'm getting a slight feeling it's related to the doomsday Alduin is about to bring us.

Anyway, for those who don't know, here's an explanation of what the doomstones does in Oblivion: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Doomstone#Doomstones
"There are two different kinds of Doomstones; the Birthsign Stones, related to the constellations that mark the zodiac of Tamriel, and the Heaven Stones, related to other celestial bodies"

It seems that, what was confirmed in the magazine, was not birthsigns at all, but birthsign stones. There's a pretty big difference, as seen in the above UESP link."

I personally think you should still be attatched to one you can't afterall change when you were born so it seems a bit silly to me. it would make you think harder at the beginning as to what character you want to create, which I personally like.

My birthsign in Oblivion was the theif, with agility and speed gone hopefully it will boost your sneak and lockpick skills instead by +10, much more useful

Still I trust Bethesda so lets see what it's like first

Ah I see. Well that's kind of why I likened them to "birthstones" in the TES world a bit. While it's not the same thing I feel it does the job no?

A bit of a simplified view but I'm not particularly a Bethesda nor TES fan. I will however take your Todd Howard. But yes your correct it seems.

But again, passing over these Doomstones possibly hindering you aswell as helping it seems it does the trick.

I think you should have one birthsign to start the game, the one you're born under, but should be able to go to a birthsign Doomstone to change it. It doesn't change when you were born, but it does change what path in the Heavens guides you. It's like being able to magically change your horoscope predictions from Gemini to Aquarius.

It gives the advantages of the original birthsign system, with the freedom to change your character if that doesn't work out.

That would work too. Unless the FAQ to come after E3 clarifies it there's no real way to know untill the game launches.

The birthsign stone system matches the flexibility angle Beyhesda is aiming for. And that's fine. Remember the rule RPGs have always followed. Simplification is accepted as long as depth is kept.

I see no fault if people aren't stuck to one set of benefits though. Again it follows the angle of it's a single player game. You can't handle sticking to one birthsign stone benefits? Your issue, if so how you can manage to rightly roleplay your character is beyond us. J.E. Sawyer agrees with this view.

But as hlvr has told us it seems by the sound of these "doomstones" there might be a give/take(pro/con) to receive the skill boosts and powers which balances switching one stone for another.

Plus by the word standing stone you can't carry them and have to find theem or go back and forth.

Yeah, they are basically just bringing back Birth stones. They are not birth signs obviously, since you werent born under them.

It was said in the magazine that confirmed birthsigns to be removed, that they were removed because Bethesda didn't want the player to make big decisions in the beginning of the game, decisions that the player might not even know the significance of until later.

These were basically the reasons for the removal of attributes as well.

I think these were the reasons to why doomstones were added specifically. We can now change it through the entire gameplay. The decisions we make are not strict and it can't ruin/hinder of game for us later in any way, since we can simply get a new "birthsign power" to replace the old one by choosing a different doomstone.

In other words, we are what we play, not what we choose at the beginning of the game.

Isn't that just like Ob except you don't start with one? Do they give any examples of their powers?

I want Heaven stones and Rune stones back, since I made an excellent jack of no trades astrologist that used these exclusively for her arsenal. Similar to how my Daedric Archaeologist would use Daedric Artifacts. No natural abilities other than high intelligence and maybe some luck.

You are not changing the sign you were born under -- the birth of your character is completely unrelated to the cosmos in any way, shape, or form. What Bethesda has brought back is the ability to . . . do whatever it is you do at doomstones and get the powers associated with that particular constellation, regardless of the date of your birth.

Basicly the article should have read, "Birthsigns that you pick at the start of the game are gone. However Doomstones are making a return, and there will be 13 of them throughout the game world based on Birthstone abilities and boosts. You can pick anyone of these doomstone abilities at anypoint in the game, so long as you know where the Doomstones are located. Whatever you choose you get to keep the ability or skill boost for as long as you wish, until you find a new doomstone you'd like to try out. There's no time limits with these 13 "new" Doomstones, so try them all until you find the best fit for you!!"

Makes no sense, Birth-sign implies you were BORN under it. For example IRL I was born under the Capricorn, I just can′t suddenly decide that I was born in the summer instead of the winter and have the Cancer or Leo instead. You′re born on a certain day, under a certain sign! Anything else is just time travel!

What they are doing is keeping sign-stones and scrapping birth-signs. I′d like it more if they just scrapped the whole concept of birth-signs and called it power-marks, or something else, but even that would be a form of retroactive continuity since birth-signs have been established quite well and even mentioned by books and characters in game. Heck even Azura herself mentioned birth-signs when she mentioned that the reincarnation of Nerevar was "born under a certain sign".

Yes it′s less flexible to pick them early on but, can′t we then instead have a level cap on the stones and then be stuck with out mark forever after choosing instead ? It could work to just pick one sign and never touch a stone again but before long we will be seeing NPC′s go "Oh I was once The Lover but I went and changed my birth-sign to the steed so now I run much faster", and that, you can not avoid.



Multiple times it is mentioned that you are born under a certain star and that your birth-sign is tied to that. You can′t even get past the intro video of Morrowind nor past the tutorial in Oblivion without Azura and Tiber Septim themselves telling you that! Changing a sign you were born under is not possible because you were born under it. Only way to have a different one would be if you were born at a different time.

hlvr kind of clarified on that. And yes it does seem birthsigns in terms of lore than effects are out(The PS magazine has some questionable wordig about other things too. Armors for example. Today we found out they were incorrect. Or perhaps they were right about full suits of armor and outfits, but parts of them are customizable)

Look back at my latest post though. Talked about the non-harm of flexible benefits in a single player game. Plus how doomstones can by their name possibly hinder you as much as harm.

And hlvr has mentioned it could have connections to Alduin.

If so then at least there could be a fitting explanation that would allow birth-signs to be changed while keeping the name 'birth-sign'.

I′d be happy with that.

I forgot what the Mage Scholars at the Arcane University said about the doom stones.

Again unless Pete Hine's on his twitter or the upcomming FAQ answers we're left with our "heads up our asses." Untill 11/11/11 or whenever you get Skyrim.

This goes for a lot of other stuff. And I'm sure by how much they've messed up the PS magazine has a few false details.

But worth a shot. Anyone want to shoot Hines a tweet?

My statement was not referring at all to the previous Elder Scrolls installments. Birthsigns are obviously permanent, but you are not born under a sign in Skyrim. In Skyrim you have the ability to use doomstones which are different from birthsigns in the fact that you can change your blessings.

Umm, and why would people in Skyrim not be born under a sign ? Everywhere else certain people are born under certain signs, why not Skyrim ? The whole argument is not about if you are or not, it′s a stable that people do get born under the signs everywhere, you′re looking at the same night sky when you look up in Skyrim as you do when you look up in Cyrodiil, Morrowind and all the other places after all.

And the argument is not about if it′s better game play wise, it′s about if it′s silly lore wise or not, which it is. Now if Alduin is messing up time then maybe people could be born on many different days, rather than being born on just one specific day, and that could explain why it would work just to touch a stone to change your sign. But if time is stable then there is pretty much no good excuse (at least that I can think of) for there not being birth-signs in the classic manner from Morrowind and Oblivion.

I don't believe TES games before Morrowind had birth signs either, and suddenly they were implemented. Devs can do with lore what they will. I'm thinking that Bethesda realized that ultimately most of the birthsigns were useless as the game progressed and didn't add a ton to the game, so they've recycled the constellations and used them for the perk trees.

Tweeted both Hines and Jason to clear the air. Guess I'll wait for an answer.

I don't like it. I didn't like it in Oblivion, either. Too many of the birthsigns were weak, and making their abilities stronger or prominent would make it too much like "respec'ing".

"I need this power for a quest!" *click*
"Oh, wait, now I need this power for this quest!" *click*
"I need this power now!" *click*
"Hmm, I don't like this power." *click*

May as well just give us them all, or (preferably) none.