Personally I love Brink. I play it for hours nightly, and hell, spent lots of my time defending it on various forums as I just simply do not understand the hate. Beyond some bugs and performance issues initially (none of which really impacted me), the gameplay is superb.

I found that the game actually became better the more I played it, and I suspect that had to do with the fact that the more skills you unlock, the more options you have. But it was also tricky initially finding weapons that felt comfortable as there are a LOT to choose from (which is good), but their listings of stats and comparisons are almost ridiculously bad. I still have no clue what half of them mean, and have simply gone with weapons that have suited my play style.

That being said, there’s a few things I really think you should consider going forward. I suspect many players who hate on the game that are not simply suffering from bugs/bad performance are not actually playing it long enough to see just what the game is capable of. There are a few things that I think really detract from it – moreso now that the game has been out for several weeks.

1. Having recently started a new character, I have found that your new, unlock-less Medium has low health, low ammo, barely any skills and is absolute fodder. Sure, you have to start somewhere, but put yourself in the eyes of someone just starting out – they are going to hate the experience.

2. As stated, the list of weapons is complete garbage. The icons look nice, but there are lots to choose from and the stats comparison or what not (with the yellow bars) is just a mess. This means nothing to me. Of all the weapons, I found myself only exclusively using the Gerund (I think that’s the name) assault rifle. And then I moved to a Light body and fell in love with the Carb 9.

3. I think limiting Body choice to unlocks is a bad idea. If anything, the Light body type by far and away feels the best ingame. It’s fast, agile, and makes absolute best use of the SMART system. If anything, it’s a really good selling point for the game – why stop new players from seeing this early on? Sure it doesn’t take much to get to it, but again, I suspect many new players aren’t even getting to that point to try it out.

4. Exiting to the main menu to choose body type and skills just feels plain primitive. Being locked into a Body type makes absolutely no sense considering you can change classes on the fly. And likewise, at the very minimum, you should be able to change Body type AND allocate skills, between rounds. Even if you’re only given 30-60 seconds, it beats having to leave the server completely.


I don’t know if any of these things are a consideration to SD, but I can tell you, many people are trying the game out and not liking it, then shelving it. It’s almost frustrating to see people do this, when I myself can understand just how bloody enjoyable the game is. I can honestly say, that some of the rounds I have played in Brink of late – particularly when two fairly even teams butt heads together - when they go right down to the wire and you get in that final hack, or finally blow that door with seconds on the clock, are some of the most satisfying in any game I’ve played ever. Realising that other people aren’t seeing what potential this game has is frustrating++

I don't think you should be able to change body types in between rounds, or in game. I would have liked it better if your character was tied to a body type when you created him.

But yes Ive had alot of those thought myself, this game doesn't really seem that exciting when you first start out, it wasn't until I unlocked the light body class that i REALLY started having fun.

Light body type took it to another level for me. I didnt even try it until I was like level 18 on my first character and I'm like OMG how did i wait so long until I tried this?

But my main point is basically, the game DOES take some time until you get used to it. The weapons and firing control does feel wonky at first, there is a small learning curve there. The weapon stat descriptions and the like do absolutely nothing to help this. If I was SD, I would be giving that whole page an overhaul, make it more intuitive. Its pretty irrelevant for people already invested in the game, but new players...

And again, the whole reason why you want to keep these new players as they're going to determine whether this game maintains a community (hello - dollars down the track) or fades into oblivion. With BF3 coming down the track...games like Brink need to show they're pretty special.

1. I got by just fine. In fact, starting out as a bare Medium was the most exciting point of the game, feeling all eager to unlock and try everything and looking forward to what's coming.

2. What about the list? The way they are presented, or the weapons themselves? Either or, I disagree. Stat bars are useless, but the way the Weapons tab is set out is a nice and easy way to manage all your weapons and their attachments. If you think that the weapons themselves are garbage... I'd love to hear your justification.

3. As far as I know, it was so that people wouldn't jump right on the Light, get frustrated because they haven't mastered the basics of Medium-level SMART, and keep getting splattered because of a piddly health bar. Though I do think Heavy/Light should both be unlocked at the same time. And tbh, I play Medium a LOT more, it's how I enjoy the game the most. Hell, I prefer Heavy to Light.

4. I don't so much agree with changing body types so easily because in real life it isn't so easy to just change your body... it is that easy, however, to pick up a different kit or weapon. SD wanted you to feel some degree of importance in selecting the right body type for your playstyle. Though a skill distribution method would be nice between matches, I usually wind up levelling up 2-5 times during a session with friends and spending all the points afterwards.

+1

From what I've seen most prerelease followers want permanent body types and such. I like that you can change it but it should cost exp.

No it's not the interface, I find this very intuitive, particularly once you've found your weapons of choice and can nominate them as default.

It's the stat bars. Basically, you have this whole page full of weapons, with obvious differences, but nothing you can actually tell other than trial and error, running off into the field using one. THere's the obvious differences - ie pistol, machinepistol, SMG, shotgun, assault rifle, heavy machinegun, grenade launcher etc - but within those archetypes, you cant tell exactly what is what at a glance. Big turn off for newer players imo.

As Ive said, I find it hard to go past several weapon types - such as Gerund, Carb-9, and a machinepistol i dont know the name of - but i would actually like to be able to tell if there's say an equivlant but higher damaging, greater accuracy etc, without trying to understand the garble of statistical bars. Like you choose one weapon, then the others seem to randomly change their bars to yellow etc as if comparing them, but it's a big case of wtf.

I have to agree on points 3 and 4. Body types should be unlocked by default and there should be an option to switch to another character (10 possible load outs) between rounds, at least. Having to decide how I'm going to play BEFORE I even get to the server list kind of makes having any more than one character pointless. I've made one character with a balanced skill tree and a medium body type because that is average as far as maneuverability goes. There is no incentive to build other characters IMO because they are going to be situational at best and I can never predict what kind of game I am going to be playing. If I could pick my character in the pre-match phase, I would get a hell of a lot more use out of those other 9 slots.

As for points 1 and 2:

#1 can be remedied by trying out the challenges first and/or just toughing it out for 20 minutes (it isn't that bad)...then again, SD could just unlock the other body types and the added variety might make it a little more fun.

#2 My only complaint with the weapon screen is the fact that all of the stats are wrong. I like the yellow and orange bars representing gains and losses, but if you are going to do that, at least make sure the stats are accurate.

This^^^

Changing bodytypes should cost you a level same as ReSpec'ing your character. This would force people to commit to one bodytype for each other their characters. Me personally, I don't change my bodytypes. So far I have 5 characters, 3 mediums, a heavy and a light...and I get by fine with each.

Furthermore Deepjay, the statement made about starting a fresh character is completely bogus. Or perhaps it's merely stated from someone who doesn't have a "High Brink IQ". Just yesterday I started my 5th character. In the very 1st match I played, a PVP match at the Aquarium, I racked up over 8000+ EXP and went from level 1 to level 4 in that one match. By my 4th match with the character, I was already at level 9. And before you ask, it's a Soldier. I just know how to use the Soldier class EXTREMELY well, as well as the other classes. (Operative is my best class however). It all boils down to, and I don't mean to sound hostile when I say this...how good you are at the game. I have no problem starting a new character, because I've already learned how to play Brink effectively and efficiently. So you statement comes off a bit far fetched to me personally. There might be some merit to it, but not for those of us who have learned the ins and outs of Brink already,

I don’t think you read what I wrote. I personally did not have issues with it as I am completely comfortable with the game. I mean from the perspective of a NEW NEW player. As I have noticed many people are not giving the game much of a chance, they’re checking it out, turning their nose up then walking away. My post is regarding possibilities as to WHY that is so.

Again, while I noticed my char was considerably more limited than my 20, I got through it with relative ease.

No offence but my "Brink IQ" is just fine, thanks.

Here is what I've heard from IRL friends who tried it and said nah.

"movement felt clunky/slow?"
"lag during online play"
"no TDM"
"weak guns"
"grenades don't kill and the explosion looks stupid"

I however love this game and try to talk it up because it's always more fun to play with people you actually know.
Unfortunately these people also said almost the exact same things about BC2... :confused:

Most of these people also have been hooked on CoD TDM for years....worse than trying to get someone off of crack.
From what I can tell, If you can't do 360 No-scope headshots while your character moves like they're ice skating then it svcks.

I can't remember why these people are my friends :biggrin:

The lack of grenade spam is actually one of the major features for me. I was worried about the escort missions in Brink as I detest them in TF2. In TF2 they're an absolute spamfest, but in Brink they rock imo. Chokepoints are difficult to deal with, but when people just sit back and lob nonstop grenades/explosives into them, they're ten times worse.

I find it to be the lack luster visuals, gameplay and sounds.

Gunfire, while loud, isn't really exciting or doesn't seem right half the time. The guns also feel like toys individually, and I shouldn't need a weapon buff to find my weapon useful.

Plus the grenades are jokes, I mean... just watch one go off. They're like firecrackers.

Or the poor maps that barely implement S.M.A.R.T. It hardly ever is useful. [Not to mention feels clunky, even with a light] With such narrow and linear paths, it makes Parkour almost useless. Other shooters give me more movement freedom this then.

Or the kinda jerky character movement that detracts from the games aesthetic.

The lack of a reason to care about any damn thing in the game. Or the fact that all of the story, all of it, is in boring audiologs.

And the lack of maps coupled with A.I. make the game kind of a hassle to just play.

I think this game and forum more than anything has helped me to realise that people's tastes differ a LOT. And I've spent a good deal of time on other forums and last.fm. How people can't put up with small flaws that are easily shrugged-off and enjoy the superb elements of the game, other than that reason, is beyond me. I can only tell myself that "people just have different tastes" but it's still difficult to comprehend.

:unsure:

1. When starting out, UNLESS YOU CHOSE OTHERWISE, you'll be pitted against other players of similar level - no getting hunted and torn apart by Heavies or Lights with better health/mobility and extra abilities unless you SPECIFICALLY CHANGE THE SETTINGS TO ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN. If you're getting demolished because you don't have all the good abilities, STOP PLAYING ABOVE YOUR RANK.

2. So you found a weapon or two that fit your playstyle best, and that makes the variety garbage. I've found that, while the Gerund is nice, and I LOVE it silenced, the Euston is actually better for me on my Soldier character. And I struggle to hit the wall of a building I'm STANDING INSIDE with the CARB-9, so I prefer my Galactic or Bulpdaun. As for the issue with the statbars, that's more because the stats aren't very clearly explained. MANY games with varied stats like this have the same problem - even a lot of RPGs fail at clarity there. It takes a fair amount of trial and error to work out what does what, when and how. Once you've managed to get yourself some idea of HOW the stats affect gameplay, it all comes together - but it takes some effort to learn what each bar means, and how big a difference it makes, and that's partly based on how you play.

3. Heavies can slaughter when used right, Mediums can slaughter when used right - I'm pretty effective with all three body types, but in general, I prefer Light - I'm currently running a Heavy Soldier though, and doing well with him. There are drawbacks to every body type, and there are HUGE advantages to each as well. Just because you're not good with something, doesn't mean other players won't bring out the best in it. And the reason to limit you to Medium at first is twofold - firstly, to let players get used to the controls on a body type that's relatively balanced, and fair to newcomers as well as high-level players, then unlock the ones which alter gameplay away from the baseline as you level up, and secondly, because if you let people unlock the body types then use them on new characters, that would be unfair on the people who are new to the game - you can go back to point 1 now for a refresher.

4. Locking you into body type for the duration of a match, I don't have a problem with. Locking you into a body type BETWEEN matches is kind of frustrating, but not too big a deal - most players will want to stick to their preferrred body type anyway. I'd lie the option, but mid-match switching isn't a good idea. And in case you hadn't noticed, the fact that you level up and can't unlock a full range of abilities (20 maximum unlocks out of 50 abilities) prevents you from switching between classes without some measure of compromise, so that argument's invalidated too.

This isnt anything personal against your friends, just these concepts in general.

Brink is probably the fastest paced game on the market atm, I dont know how anyone could suggest the movement is sluggish, it does it much better than any other game I've played on the console.
Lag, well, can't argue there - this is why most new games are going to be all about Dedicated Servers.
Weak guns?! Weak guns?! Nothing more.
And the last one about grenades is just like the stupidest reason ever not to like a game.

Don't forget what Call of doody has done to todays gamers.
I bet so many COD players bought this and it's way too different to COD that they just didn't understand what was happening or what they should be doing.

We need the Team Fortress fans to get into this.

Bro. I've seen your posts around the forums, and not to be mean or anything, but you've already said that you rarely play shooters. So, i'm not sure how your opinion of yours, when you don't play others that often, is that fair. Sure, you've taken a shining to Brink, so have I. Doesn't mean it's good. More mediocre.

Weapons are all over just kinda weak, but the low accuracy and high spread equals just makes that worse. Low damage is alright, but shoddy weaponry isn't.

This game is far from beautiful, Crysis 2 or MW2 are way better visually. And audibly.

I don't mind grenades low damage, but jesus, really have you seen or heard them go off? Yeah, it's pretty sad.

Okay, i'm being a little unfair. But too often i've had problems climbing things or even a simple mantle over a box or rail.

Why yes. I would like the Map's to be damn jungle gyms where I can run, wall hop and climb around to my heart's content. Screw the heavies, they gave up their mobility for their bigger guns. I chose a light for mobility and the parkour movement.

I'm was mainly talking about the smoothness of the movement/motion of the characters over all. [When looking at them] It's just so jerky. Watching character's do actions, it all just lacks fluidity between things and is abrupt. Again, personal opinion, but it really doesn't help the gameplay. At least to me.

I have to parody this line. "I don't see why people watch movies for storyline. Gore and action is way better then story." "I don't know why people read books for story lines, comic books are way better with their fight scenes." "I don't know why people listen to other peoples stories. You could just go to a strip club and watch half naked chicks dance." Story is important for most games, and if you aren't going to have much of a story, you need something else to back it up. Like Team Fortress, that has humor with introductions for most of the characters, and a simple rivalry. RvB. Brink however started something for a story, a semi-real campaign/story and did nothing with it. I'm just criticizing a lacking part of the game.

Map's are small restricted segmented things that are usually tilted completely in one sides favor. Bad design. In Battlefield, you can make your own path's with destruction and can move through large combat zones at your own pace unless there's active snipers/vehicles around. And CoD, while a bit camper friendly, you still can get around the map pretty freely, or avoid camping zones. There's walls with ladders, overlooks, nooks and crannys, and all sorts of variation. And I've rarely been spawn camped in MW. However, I find it funny you bring that up when I can just say Container City. But spawn camping has now come with the territory in these kinda games, can't help it. At least CoD will spawn you somewhere else eventually.


Unfortunately though, i'm pretty much ranting on what I dislike about the game, and mentioned Call of Duty, immediately making almost everything I said a total lie to the fans and Call of Duty haters. And for as much as I said, this game is kinda getting better just due to the problem of lag, and yeah, Battlefield and Call of Duty have their own issues. But the rest of what they do is just about spot on, which is more then I can say for Brink.

Plus, I don't like them ripping us off of content we should have. The in game Command Post video show's a player at level 22 going through his abilities.

I pretty much cant take anyone who rants about the SMART being useless or grenades being pathetic seriously anymore. To me this just stinks of a player who has barely played the game.
SMART is amazing once you get the hang of it. While not immediately obvious, every single map has a plethora of alternate routes, some ONLY accessible by SMART, some only accessible by SMART _AND_ the Light body type. When the game bogs down in a stalemate, SMART saves the day. Good players take the side paths and attack from the sides or behind. This alone counters any heavy defence, or keeps them on their toes. While at first it appeared there was not much use for it – there is.

And secondly, grenades in the right hands are amazing. They require finesse and skill to get the most out of them. By lobbing one at a full health player, you will NOT kill him – well maybe with the higher level grenade damage skill soldiers have versus a Light.

You need to use grenades tactically. Take a player down to half health, or whatever you can with a full clip, then lob a cooked grenade at him and he’ll die. Lob a firebomb at a group of enemies and clean house as they flop around like beached whales. Lob a flash grenade into a group of enemies and likewise, clean them up while they’re blinded.

Unlike your COD’s, your Battlefields etc, the grenades are not simply lob and profit, they require precision and actually thought into how they’re used. No offence, but anyone who simply calls them ‘firecrackers’, clearly hasn’t learned how to use them. Almost each and every round I kill a ton of people with grenades. And I haven’t even mentioned what you can pull of with the Operatives sticky grenade.

And finally, while the graphics may not be cutting edge, they are very good. The strength of the graphics is in their art style. The maps all look completely different, varied and are absolutely chock full of detail. Unlike COD Black Op's maps, which look like boxes full of props, Brinks's maps actually look like they have been plucked out of an actual location. Bad COmpany 2 is another superb example of this. In addition to this, the character designs and weapons all look top notch. Of course, liking or disliking a games graphics comes down to personal taste, but for me, it ticks the boxes.

Well sure, I mean that in the way that unlike most others on the forums it seems, I haven't been playing them all my life. I've only taken a liking in them in the past few years, prior to that I was playing mostly R&C or DW or some TPS games. But over these few years, and earlier, I believe I've at least dabbled in the genre and across enough games to claim around a small degree of experience.

I find time-to-kill no different from other games, sometimes it even seems to happen instantaneously (have you ever played Lost Planet 2?!), and though weapon handling can get pretty harsh with weapons like the ARs, but I don't believe it's "shoddy weaponry". MW2 may have flashy graphics, but it was bland and murky; what I meant by Brink being "beautiful" is that it's just nice to look at and take in the scenery. Haven't had a chance to see Crysis 2 yet. As for audibly? Nothing about the guns in MW2 sounded overly-impressive or stuck out really, and I sure as hell know the OST was boring. Brink isn't jaw-droppingly amazing with it's audio, but nothing sounds bad by any means and the shotguns are great.

The whole "screw the heavies" point seems a little on the ignorant side, as they are as much a part of the game as Lights; you have to realise considering SD and their values, I don't think they would totally give Heavies the shaft by giving Lights limitless possibilities and advantages in movement. In most games, choosing the lighter bodytype or armour merely gives you quicker mobility at the cost of less health, and the speeds in Brink are certainly noticeable. The fact that the Light can quickly tackle obstacles Mediums have to take their time with, and that Heavies can't even traverse, is good enough in my eyes. As for movement, I'm not sure I've played any game where it wasn't "jerky". There's always going to be a degree of in-humanness to watching movement in other players, because the amount of time and memory it would take to expend on creating that degree of realism would probably be relatively demanding. It certainly isn't so dire that I've even noticed yet.

As for the whole story thing, just stop there. Story is important for movies and books, because although all these forms of entertainment are immersive, neither can rely on being interactive on the level a video game is. You don't read a book or watch a movie and think "oh boy, that was fun". You wouldn't go play a round of paintball or laser tag with a cleverly-devised backstory - you just go out there and have a blast. A bad storyline will deter me from a book, because a book is essentially story-telling and needs to keep you captivated on that alone. A bad storyline in a movie will annoy me, but can be balanced out to make the experience at least enjoyable through quality comedy, action or visuals. But bad or non-existent story can be forgiven altogether in a game, providing it's fun enough to maintain attention consistently. I realise Brink promised a deep story and it did seem lacking. I would have liked more on that front, since it was an element SD seemed proud of. But I have to congratulate them for actually getting me to think about the events of the game in retrospect to the backstory, weigh out the ideals in my mind... and though feel allegiance to one side, still feel a sting of sympathy for the other. Certainly a more thought-provoking and testing story than most MP FPS games, to have me doubt my own morals and ideals.

I don't have so much of a problem with BF maps. I find the size of most CoD maps combined with the nature of the game makes it an overall unenjoyable experience. Spawn-camping just naturally seems to happen with linear-focused maps (that commonly and blatantly favour defenders, tbh, and I'm surprised the percentages on the site are as balanced as they are), but perhaps being the taste thing again, I enjoy their level of order. At least in Brink I've found that spawn-camping the enemy can horribly back-fire, more so in the past 3 weeks than I've seen in BC, BC2 and MAG combined. They seem no-less flawed than any other linear-focused objective games.

I appreciate you explaining yourself, and it's good to get somebody else's perspective on the game because I honestly hardly notice the flaws from my point-of-view. Unlike a lot of members, I don't immediately dismiss you as a CoD player, since it was originally W@W lan that prompted me into online MP FPS games, and I do own CoD4. I've at least dabbled in the series and have developed my own opinions, but not to the ignorantly militant degree of some. I know Brink has its flaws, but so do most games. What it DOES have to offer gameplay-wise, and it's presentation, is what makes me love it. It just pushes all the right buttons, and the rest can be forgiven. That's what so far has made it the most enjoyable FPS game I've ever played.

Also, who knows what the level cap was during development, or even when that specific footage was taken? The design choice may not have been made until mere months ago, or the footage may have been from a dev build where they were experimenting with skill distribution. I don't see any way of deriving being "ripped off" from that fact they're lvl 22.