We know of only 1 skills full perk list (block = 9 perks)

But on average to get every perk into a skill category you would need on average 15 1/2 perks per skill

I really doubt they are going to come up with 15 perks in one tree for one skill so will some perks be quest based, like the ones for fallout 3

Remember Dream Crusher or Hematophage from Fallout 3?

So what do you think?

I believe that the 280 perks they mention also entails each rank of a certain perk (eg: the shield wall has 3 ranks, therefore counts for 3 of the 280)

Block has 13 perks. Shield Wall has 5 ranks.

I expect One-handed Weapons to have 20 or more perks. There's so much that needs to be packed into it. Swords, Axes, Maces, Dual-wielding. Maybe even short sword/dagger perks, but those are probably in Sneak.

The optimist in me says there'll be one or two, though I don't know how it'll work with the Constellation Menu.

So maybe not.

I hope there are perks you can earn other than leveling up.

Racial perks are confirmed, so there are some non-skill-level based perks, but it is unknown if that is the extent of it or not.

I didn't hear of racial perks. Do you have a link?

Link?!

Maybe you'll be taught some?

probably also perks for vampirism/lycanthropy. and maybe also perks for achieving the higher ranks in guilds.

I can imagine some bonus perks from quests. Like the disease immunity from curing corprus in Morrowind, that could be stored as a perk. Or the stat bonuses from the Grey Prince's training in Oblivion. Race bonuses could be stored as perks.

Treat perks as storage containers for permanent character bonuses and you can do away with permanent enchantments and such. It would also make level-based racial magicka bonuses (like what Race Balancing Project for Oblivion has) easy to utilize. Make an invisible perk with ranks according to the steps of the bonus, and automatically award ranks at certain levels. That'll probably be for a mod, not for vanilla.

Actually, if they can function like this then they open up a lot of easy modding opportunities. Scripted effects in perks could simulate new skills, maybe even new equipment slots. I wish I could mod so I would know exactly how much they could realistically do.

Quest perks are extremely likely but the over 280 perk/perk levels is NOT counting them.

As for racial perks.. races will have bonuses those bonuses will LIKELY show up in the menu as perks just as traits do in fallout new vegas. In fact it will likely be exactly the same sort of thing.

Doubtful. The only perks we've heard of so far are the ones in the skill perk trees (constellations). I bet the differences between races will be handled like in previous TES games. Each race will have different starting skill values (values, probably not perks), and they will have racial abilities which will probably be in the magic menu.

Remember that perks are not shown in a list like in fallout. They are in skill trees in the form of constellations. Technically they could give races different starting perks, or add stars to the constellations based on your race, but I doubt it. It would make more sense to just give them different starting skill values (like in Morrrowind and Oblivion) and let us choose whatever perks we want.

All signs point to there being non-skill based perks. Signs being the trend of the two previous games.

It just makes sense. Quest based perks add a lot to feelings of accomplishment and originality with your character.

No signs point to non-skill based perks. Unless I've missed some mention of them, every time perks have been mentioned so far, it's been in the context of skill-based perk trees.

Bethesda did perks for Fallout 3 in one way. Obsidian copied Bethesda's perk implementation for FNV. Bethesda is implementing perks in a new way for Skyrim.

I think the number 280 is those you can chose when you lvl up. I hope there is a few quest specific perks though, like how to make Orcish/Nordic armor/weapons from steel, maybe a few unique combat moves based on the traditions of a culture(like Nordic, Ra'Gada, Orish etc) just to make it more interesting.

What he's saying is it's not going to be like Fallout 3 where the perks aren't tied to any skill. They majority were actually tied to attributes, if I recall correctly.

In Skyrim the perks will be specific to a skill. However, I don't think this means every perk in the game is going to be tied to a skill. I believe Todd is referring to the perks you choose when you level.

Will there be fun Perks like cannibalism, animal friend and Lady Killer / Black widow?
or are all the perks weapon / spell based? i mean i would like to have some recreational parks in there too, thats what made fallout fun. it would be kinda lame if they didnt add any

Well perks in Skyrim and Oblivion are not like perks in Fallout they all are skill based and there is no evidence for general not linked to skills perks, but there is also traits like racial traits what can be chosen from start or traits received from guardian stones through game, such traits was available and before in TES like various powers and bonuses what player character can receive as advantages and disadvantages in Daggerfall, Corprus immunity in Morrowind, Birthsigns, special trainings and rewards, additional traits from vampirism and lycanthropy, and so on.
Traits are not perks in TES they are different layers, unlike of Fallout 3 (but not like in Fallout NV) where traits and perks are same
Perks give only significant advantages and bonuses from skills
Traits can give both advantages and disadvantages, they are not strictly depend on skills and can be chosen and beginning, I really hope traits will return in Skyrim.

But quest based perks can be done since with raising skills we only open perks to be chosen by fitting their requirements at character leveling unlike of Oblivion where is perks was received automatically with rising of skills, as well perks are limited in number to chose (only 50 self chosen perks per character) perhaps thats work only for character leveling and not for quest based events so we can receive certain special training as reward for quest thats don't count in perk limit, perhaps master trainers quests can help us in such deal.

I would like forging-based skills to forge orcish,elven,glass,ebony swords.Special forging techniques to increase the power/endurance/looks(value)

Most solid number I've seen is about 280 perks, 230 or so of which are actually unique, which would mean multiple ranks for perks in most skill trees.

But I imagine that, yes, there will be some "general" perks related to quests. Perhaps a special move acquired via a Companions quest, or a blessing from a church that increases the effectiveness of your turn undead spells. Things like that which are listed in the magic menu rather than with the skills.

Good point I hadnt thought about the fact they only show perks on that starmap... Yup in fact one has to wonder where in those menus they would put race info or if they ever do and dont just show it on char creation.

I really hope the 280 number doesnt include multiple perks in the same category

I dont think block 1 (5%) and block 2 (10%) should really be called 2 perks

I just wrote that the unique count was something around 230 perks.

Quest Perks are probably the best kinds of reward I would want to have. It's rare that an item rewarded in a quest is something I actually want to use, and money is not that important in the long run. But I would climb mountains and leap through fire if it gets me some unique perk that permanently does something useful for my character.