Breaking down doors? : V - Skyrim

» Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:30 am

Compared to how stealth-based characters are still forced to fight dragons head on in Skyrim, I think Warriors got the better end of the bargain.

You are not roleplaying non-stealth characters, you just don't want to have the disadvantage of a warrior specialist. You get to kill things quicker and survive longer, so you have to sacrifice something in exchange for that.

It's not about being at a disadvantage, but if the game presents a non-stealth quest and provides a locked door with NO other alternatives, then it's forcing me to have security as a means of doing things regardless of my class. That's forced gameplay, not a smegging disadvantage.

» Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:51 pm

I dearly miss being able to bash down doors with my fists in Daggerfall. It was almost tolerable in Morrowind where you could purchase Open spell scrolls en masse, but in Oblivion I found it a bit more frustrating. Since Todd wants each archetype to have equal playability (such as giving a crafting discipline to each), it would only be logical if warriors had some way to open doors now. I don't know how the skill check would be performed, but it should definitely damage your weapon and drain your stamina to a certain to degree. It'd add to the suspense of stumbling through a locked doorway into a barracks full of guards, with your weapon almost destroyed.

» Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:00 am

It's not about being at a disadvantage, but if the game presents a non-stealth quest and provides a locked door with NO other alternatives, then it's forcing me to have security as a means of doing things regardless of my class. That's forced gameplay, not a smegging disadvantage.

You got an example of that "no alternative" situation? Usually someone has a key, you just have to find that someone and crush his skull open.

And as I say, in the Blackwood Company quest stealth characters lose out because they couldn't pick the doors at all. Not all quests are easy for all characters.

» Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:47 am

I dearly miss being able to bash down doors with my fists in Daggerfall. It was almost tolerable in Morrowind where you could purchase Open spell scrolls en masse, but in Oblivion I found it a bit more frustrating. Since Todd wants each archetype to have equal playability (such as giving a crafting discipline to each), it would only be logical if warriors had some way to open doors now. I don't know how the skill check would be performed, but it should definitely damage your weapon and drain your stamina to a certain to degree. It'd add to the suspense of stumbling through a locked doorway into a barracks full of guards, with your weapon almost destroyed.

Especially since we cannot repair weapons and armor on the go

» Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:30 am

Compared to how stealth-based characters are still forced to fight dragons head on in Skyrim, I think Warriors got the better end of the bargain.

You are not roleplaying non-stealth characters, you just don't want to have the disadvantage of a warrior specialist. You get to kill things quicker and survive longer, so you have to sacrifice something in exchange for that.

In general the way a pure warrior get around the problem of a locked door is just outright kill whoever had the key.
(You might have noticed that it is how you finish the Oblivion final Fighter's Guild Quest. The Blackwood Company doors are unpickable, so you had to kill everyone for the keys. This is intentionally trying to suit a pure warrior player.)

It should be sufficient to get you through most quests. You would likely miss out on miscellaneous treasure, but as I say that's the price you pay in being more deadly in combat. I am not going to feel sorry for you that your character is stronger and tougher than mine.

You seem to have a great deal of emotional investment in the notion of what might or might not be fair for one or another character, and it appears that it's that that's driving your views on this matter, rather than any consideration of gameplay or roleplaying or verisimilitude.

Unless we presume that Nirnian locks are made out of some sort of indestructible superalloy, then the notion that those locks cannot be overcome through the application of physical force is nothing more than an arbitrary contrivance. It has nothing at all to do with roleplaying, and in fact is contrary to one of the fundamental aspects of roleplaying - internal consistency. It instead serves only as a sop to those who think that some sort of "fairness" should be imposed on the game.

Here's the issue as I see it - Nirnian locks are certainly made of materials that could be damaged or destroyed. Therefore Nirnian locks could be damaged or destroyed. Therefore an application of sufficient force should be able to damage or destroy them. And that's really that.