Questions about Dagoth Ur. : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:49 am

Hello, I was reading up on Dagoth Ur quite recently actually, and I quote

Following the defeat of the Dwemer, the Tools of Kagrenac the Master Craftsman fell into the hands of the Chimer, ruled at the time by Lord Indoril Nerevar, to whom fell the burden of the decision as to what to do with them. Dagoth himself, at first, urged for their immediate destruction, either of the Tools or the Heart itself: Nerevar, taking this as a sign of Dagoth's trustworthiness, opted to leave Dagoth behind to guard them while consulting his councillors, the Tribunal of Vivec, Almalexia and Sotha Sil (and the Dunmer's Daedric patrons, Azura and Boethiah) on the subject.

But, when Nerevar returned with the councillors' decision - which was, indeed, to destroy and not use the Tools - Dagoth refused to give them up, holding that he had been entrusted to guard them. He had, in the absence of Nerevar, been tempted to experiment with the Tools on the Heart, and somehow managed to steal some of its divine essence and the power of immortality. He now called himself Dagoth Ur, and was forever after known by that name. Nerevar and Dagoth Ur came to blows: Dagoth-Ur was defeated, driven off and thought to have been destroyed (along with most of his House who supported him: the remainder were absorbed by the other Great Houses, and House Dagoth ceased to exist as an entity), but Nerevar was seriously wounded as well. He was to die shortly afterwards, possibly having been killed by the Tribunal, who did not destroy the Tools or the Heart, but instead stole divine powers from it for themselves. Thus, Dagoth Ur's connection to the Heart was not destroyed, and he remained alive and immortal, albeit bodiless.

How long was it between the Nerevar's meeting with his council and trusting Ur with the tools? Could it have been long enough for Ur to tap into the power so rapidly?

My other question is: What IS Dagoth Ur? Dunmer? Chimer? Altmer?

I also have more when the chances arise.

Edit: I'd also like to note that my Lore Knowledge is Novice. I'm not to far into the Lore. Yet.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:09 pm

As far as I remember, Ur tapped into the Heart as a Chimer. His appearance in Morrowind suggest he looks Dunmer though. You could probably speculate forever about why he appears this way in the game and not come to a clear answer, in my opinion.

I don't recall who wrote the version of the story you're quoting, but if I'm remembering correctly, we can gather that Dagoth between some point after being entrusted with the tools, whether after his "death" or before it, he bound himself to the Heart. Note that it wasn't a very strong connection, but enough to keep himself alive after being attacked. Later, after the Tribunal ascend into power, they are about to participate in one of their rechargings from the heart and are ambushed buy Ur and his kin, who are now also bound to the heart. I don't remember if he used the tools or just studied them, though i will say it would have been rather hard without Wraithguard to do so.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:54 pm

As far as I remember, Ur tapped into the Heart as a Chimer. His appearance in Morrowind suggest he looks Dunmer though. You could probably speculate forever about why he appears this way in the game and not come to a clear answer, in my opinion.

In one of the tellings of the battle, the one where Nerevar is killed by the tribunal while he's away from Red mountain, Azura curses the chimer to be dunmer after the death of Nerevar. When the tribunal go to get the tools, Dagoth Ur had been turned into a dunmer like the rest. Depending on which version of events you stick with, one could safely presume he changed with the rest of them.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:54 pm

The other alternative would be that he chose to embrace the change, like Seht, to be closer to his people. Since his goal is the freedom (and eventually supremacy) of the Dunmer, a little "I'm just like you!" propoganda doesn't hurt.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:17 pm

The other alternative would be that he chose to embrace the change, like Seht, to be closer to his people. Since his goal is the freedom (and eventually supremacy) of the Dunmer, a little "I'm just like you!" propoganda doesn't hurt.

You mean Vehk?
By saying Seht you're stating the exact opposite of what he did.
Also, he appears from the Dreamsleeve - it might be that he appears as one thinks he would.
The only time Dagoth Ur was physically described in text was by the player.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:42 pm

You mean Vehk?
By saying Seht you're stating the exact opposite of what he did..

Sotha Sil embraced the dark dunmer skin. Vivec has half his skin golden, other half dark.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:20 pm

And, of Almsivi, Almalexia remained completely Chimer by his own will.

Vivec is half-and-half, Chimer and Dunmer. There's been some debate as of should Sotha even be Dunmer.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:56 pm

In Tribunal, doesn't Sotha Sil appear to be Chimer?

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:35 pm

I meant Seht. Ayem stands appart and views herself as fully divine, and has Chimer skin. Seht feels remorse about what he did, and suffers the same punishment as his people. Vehk is both the ultimate divnity and the mortal face of the tribunal.
Sotha Sil has dark skin in Tribunal, though there is some debate as to whether this is hi choice or the side effect of him being hooked up to machines and dead. I could have sworn there is textual evidence for the former,though I can't look it up atm (using kindle as a web browser - feels nicely retrofuturistic, but isn't terribly conducive to research, or, for that matter, proper spelling).