Agreed, but just because Oblivion was leaning so heavily toward crazy level scaling, doesn't mean that leaning completely the other way is any better either.

I don't know, the thought of walking through a green and pleasant forest while knowing that because it was locked at level 20 i'l never be surprised by just one or two raging minotaurs or other creatures, even if they just appeared very rarely, would make me feel like the world was not dynamic or even realistic, surely it would be fun for the odd crazed beast to appear in low level areas and towns now and again?

I do hope that even in low level areas where 90% of the mobs are locked at a low level, that the chance for something big, nasty and scary to spawn still exists even if only a very small chance, because that would keep the game fresh for me at least, and would keep my characters on their toes even if they could one-shot 90% of the local monsters.

...and? Kind of the point of my post. And Skyrim's system doesn't seem that much better than what I suggested, especially if areas aren't dynamic. (which is a feature I'm sure we would know about by now)



Unlike some people I'm don't take the "derp I'm going to be against you because I can" route. If you legitimately convince me of your position then I'll concede to it. Or, we'll hammer it out to mutual agreement. Pretty much the point of healthy discussion.



Aww, I love you too random pedestrian. :wub:

I believe that outside zones in Fallout 3, when they respawned, reset their leveling. (So, you could go to a Mutant camp at low level, fight some Mutants.... come back many levels later, and having left the area alone so it actually did respawn, and it would have Brutes & Masters.)

But yeah... FO3 interiors didn't respawn.

i see what you mean but from what i have read only dungeons will lock levels.

I have no idea how loot scaling will be implemented. I truly hope there will no longer be scaling of unique items. If I want to bust my ass to fight a clan of ice vampires at low level and find a unique magical item, I don't want it to be a crappy item. I found it extremely lame in Oblivion to have to wait for my character to level up to take certain quests because I didn't want to end up with the crappy version of a particular item.

However, it has been 100% confirmed in a few different interviews that dragons as well as dungeons will be set at specific ranges, like level 15-20 or level 5-10, etc., and level in the FO3 style, where they lock to the lower end of the range if you are lower when you first encounter; the higher end of the range if the PC character level is higher when you first encounter; and exactly at the PC's level on encountering them if the character level fits between the area's set range.

Also, a "dungeon level" does not necessarily mean that every single creature in that dungeon will be exactly that level. If FO3 is the template, there should still be some lower and some higher level enemies within the area, but it will be designed to provide balanced combat encounters for a PC at that level on normal difficulty.

Essentially, in the example you mentioned above, there could be a dungeon that is set to level 30-40. If the PC enters at character level 5, that dungeon would be locked to level 30 (in other words, designed to provide balanced combat for a level 30 Dovahkiin). I have no idea about the loot scaling details, but I do know that dungeon will be extremely challenging for a level 5 PC. So if he leaves and then comes back later when he is level 32, it will still be locked to level 30.

My ideal system is such.

Only Level scaling in game effects dragons if its a MUST that allows both young and old characters to be able to take them down for the sake of the shouts and such also allows you to get away if need be for whatever reason.

Now everything is else has already pre-set level range at the beginning of the games. Also be aware levels do not entirely mean difficulty just what kinda spells/attacks/gear each are wearing.

Goblins level 2-5 their pests pretty much less organized then a normal bandit gang is at the bottom of the totem poll.

3-8 for Common Bandits If your level 3 or 4 the majority of the bandits will be 3-4 but there are a few in the upper levels which goes all the way up till you reach 8. Past level 8 at 10 or 12 the bandits will be locked at 8 thus removing the horrid I have Glass armor but I am still living in a cave eating mud crab meat. (Bandits locked at fur, rugged leather, and iron)

10-15 Bandit leaders (Goblin leaders included) are a step up they are more rare thus making them a higher level then a common bandit will allow them to seem more experience in what types of attacks/gear even spells they have. Ideally they will be wearing Steel or chain mail.

14-24 Mercenary groups are the most organized some groups may not be hostile at first but even the non hostile ones should follow the same. Common gear is Steel/chain-mail and now a bit of dwarven or enchanted armor pieces (not sets)

The Most difficult organized humanoids will be Cults or guilds either that be like the Theives guild, fighters guild, Dark Brotherhood, somthing like the Black water. Has a variation of level ranges since guilds are mostly hand crafted it would ideally range from 8-36.

New recruits are level 5-10
Experienced members being the same as mercs at 14-25.
Highest ranking members and Leader will be at 28-35

Now for wildlife.

Deer mud crabs, dogs, sheep and any non hostile animal for hunting purposes or similar level 1-4. A Deer is a deer if you shoot it just because ones a 10 point buck doesn't make it stronger. This also included any other wildlife they may add like rabbits or pigs or cows but ya.. Deer is a safe bet those are not

Wolves, bears, sabertooths, etc. lvl 3-8.

Pack leaders, mama bears, and lion kings lvl 8-14. leveling system won't work for armor due to the fact they have no armor it just what kind of attack effects it has a wolf has a simple gnaw or rip with claws attack pack leaders has attacks that could make you get a bleed effect or something similar

Creatures

Common monsters such as Trolls, Skeletons, Orge, Minotaur, Imps all fall into level 5-10

Undead follow level 10-35 (Lichs being most powerful Skels being the most common thus lowest)

Magical, or Dedric creatures(if appear) level ranges from lvl 15-40


Thats all I can think of atm, also should be handcrafted original rare creatures throughout the world that go from level 40-50 if your level 10 and going against it your going be wiped but if they implemented it so they only show after level 35 or something that wouldn't be much of an issue.

Again if your level 4 and your going against something like Bandit leaders it will still be possible only difference is they have better armor possibly better skills/magic so it will be tougher then a bandit but it will be possible.

This will never be implemented in Skryim though so I ask for a simple hardcoe mode or hardcoe damage mode to have

Real world is linear then.


Level scaling is evil because too many people are fooled by it. I was fooled in FF8 and Oblivion. There are very apparent consequences to level scaling. Irrevocable huge ones. Morrowind's only problem was PC was let to be too powerful. Level scaling is not the answer to that. Simply, limiting the player to some sensible degree is.

Randomization between ranges serves better. If difficulty is concern, just don't spawn high level monsters until level 10. It can be considered as tutorial until level 10 anyway. What's a "PC level offset"? Kill it with fire. :flamethrower:

Good thing, Fallout 3 and Skyrim are using an updated version of place centric model that was in Morrowind. The roof/floor levels will only serve to randomization. It will be completely random to enter caves, regarding to their levels. It will feel static in each playthrough, dynamic compared to different playthroughs.