Torture In Skyrim : V - Skyrim

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:52 pm

You people really creep me out sometimes.

What do you mean "you people" it seems to me only 2 people are on the "creepy" side me and blackrave.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:54 pm

You're also just a little pale boy on a computer. You mustn't worry yourself with such things; maybe you should find a hobby such as knitting. I know a guy who started knitting, and now he doesn't mastvrbate in public anymore.

This comment is insane and naive.

Really what does his skin color or gender have anything to do with what he has been saying, you seem to disagree but I for one agree and understand him, torture is necessary otherwise we would not be a great country, hell even in the USA where I live we just found out as a people a few years back that we were torturing others for info, its the only way otherwise they would not crack for whatever intel we needed, not like we can ask them nicely "where is the C4 you planted mister" -_-

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:33 pm

I do not believe that we can limit ourselves as a species to right and wrong, but I would hope that most people are enlightened enough to realise that there can be no justification for murder or torture.
I do not believe that there has ever in the history of the species existed a situation where the torture of one man is 'neccesary to save an untold amount of lives.'
I believe that is in itself a lie, or at least a convenient bending of reality to justify what can be described no other than an evil act.

I am a highly moral person and I do not think I live in a fantasy world.
I live, in fact, in a mind quite devoid of the little lies people tell themselves. I dont 'close the curtains to keep the dark out.' I dont 'believe it will all turn out right in the end.' I am in fact not supersticious, but substicious.

I believe that the type of rhetoric you print is all too familiar, and has not really changed since the dawn of time.
It is fallacious logic based on the premise that us is 'the real humans' and the rest 'is the enemy'.
Acting first so you wont have to act last? The morality of a five year old. I did advice to read up on philosophy for a reason.
I would hope that an educated and civilised person would treat such an utterance only with the scorn it deserves, rather than embrace it as some sort of truth from upon high.

No. Torture is not justified because 'you are on the right side'.
That is a very slippery slope, mainly because it is impossible to decide who is 'on the right side', as the whole division is illusory in itself.

Did it appear that I think that everyone else is the enemy?Or that I am always on the right side?If so I apoligise for I do not think so.

I agree with many of your beliefs.If I appeared to seem like a warmongering,xenophobic,self-rightous person who always believes they are on the right side I apoligise again,but that dosen't change the fact I still believe that torture is a neccsary is certain circumstances and the good outshines the evil in it.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:07 pm

Did it appear that I think that everyone else is the enemy?Or that I am always on the right side?If so I apoligise for I do not think so.

I agree with many of your beliefs.If I appeared to seem like a warmongering,xenophobic,self-rightous person who always believes they are on the right side I apoligise again,but that dosen't change the fact I still believe that torture is a neccsary is certain circumstances and the good outshines the evil in it.

That is actually the whole point.
Morality is not a balancing act.
You cannot wipe out a sin by performing twelve good deeds, or paying money.

I am not refuting that some 'good' may come of it, but that does not negate that torture is an inherently evil act.
It is evil towards the victim, but also towards the perpetrator.
It dehumanises them both.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:14 pm

I don't understand why you're trying to form an argument on the internet about ideology with the use of a high school education or less. Much more so, without knowing what you're arguing about. To put something like torture into a video game would imply that people are receiving a positive sensation while preforming it on simulated human beings. You're trying to argue that people should be tortured in order to save lives; sure why not, want a cookie? It happens ever day.

But what you should understand is that the taking joy in watching something being tortured isn't alright.. At all. I understand that if you aren't out of high school yet you probably don't even have a fully functional brain, so you may want to think about the message you're portraying about yourself before soliciting it to strangers on the internet.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:31 pm

That is actually the whole point.
Morality is not a balancing act.
You cannot wipe out a sin by performing twelve good deeds, or paying money.

I am not refuting that some 'good' may come of it, but that does not negate that torture is an inherently evil act.
It is evil towards the victim, but also towards the perpetrator.
It dehumanises them both.

Hmm this conversation has been reduced to personal ideals.Which obviously means that this debate is over for I will be defiling one of my own beliefs if I do so,so I bid you good day.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:11 pm

torture would be epic, maybe an option to disable it for the weak hearts would be cool too.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:10 pm

I don't understand why you're trying to form an argument on the internet about ideology with the use of a high school education or less. Much more so, without knowing what you're arguing about. To put something like torture into a video game would imply that people are receiving a positive sensation while preforming it on simulated human beings. You're trying to argue that people should be tortured in order to save lives; sure why not, want a cookie? It happens ever day.

But what you should understand is that the taking joy in watching something being tortured isn't alright.. At all. I understand that if you aren't out of high school yet you probably don't even have a fully functional brain, so you may want to think about the message you're portraying about yourself before soliciting it to strangers on the internet.

Limiting ourselves because of age now?A very odd idea indeed.I have thought about the message I am portraying so do not assume these fallacy's about me. If I am correct about you i'm going to assume that as a child you were one of the children who limited themselves to immaturity because it was normal at your age?Or you didn't study advanced literature because you were only a child?Well I have to say I was never like that and never shall so I won't stop debating because *you* assume because im a highschooler my brain isn't fully developed and I cannot have a logical and well reasoned judgement

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:14 pm

I don't know...It doesn't seem to fit in the TES games. Sure there are lots of references to it in the lore but in the game it just doesn't seem necessary. I really liked that torture mod in Oblivion but that was really to just [censored] around with npc. Perhaps you will see someone tortured but I don't want myself to torture. If I want to do such things I will go play the game: The punisher

Should It be included then I don't mind but I still voted no

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:10 pm

If there is going to be torture, then lets hope the guards arent all seeing like in Oblivion.

Look, you gonna tell me what you know or i gonna start cutting things !

STOP YOUVE BROKEN THE LAW

Aw crap.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:11 pm

*you* assume because im a highschooler my brain isn't fully developed and I cannot have a logical and well reasoned judgement

Well now you're just arguing about science. Yes, there is gravity, and grass is green for a reason as well. There is a reason why you can't vote or drink, as well as another myriads of things actually; you can't form logical well-reasoned judgment.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:57 pm

There was somewhat torture in a certain Fighters Guild quest

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:59 pm

Well now you're just arguing about science. Yes, there is gravity, and grass is green for a reason as well. There is a reason why you can't vote or drink, as well as another myriads of things actually; you can't form logical well-reasoned judgment.

I can't? Have I not proven I can within this thread? You seem to be comparing me to other people when I am not other people and have never reduced my self to that mundane of a level. I have contemplated the pros and cons I have considered the outcome and many other things. Is that not what makes a reasoned judgement?

To compare one man to another is to compare a fish to a tiger.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:49 pm

I can't?Have I not proven I can within this thread?You seem to be comparing me to other people when I am not other people and have never reduced my self to that mundane of a level.I have contemplated the pro's and con's I have considered the outcome and many other things.Is that not what makes a reasoned judgement?

To compare one man to another is to compare a fish to a tiger.

Well I'm not going to get into an ideological debate that's going nowhere and isn't even on topic but, you have proven a lack of proper grammar that annoys the hell out of me

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:47 pm

I don't understand why you're trying to form an argument on the internet about ideology with the use of a high school education or less. Much more so, without knowing what you're arguing about. To put something like torture into a video game would imply that people are receiving a positive sensation while preforming it on simulated human beings. You're trying to argue that people should be tortured in order to save lives; sure why not, want a cookie? It happens ever day.

But what you should understand is that the taking joy in watching something being tortured isn't alright.. At all. I understand that if you aren't out of high school yet you probably don't even have a fully functional brain, so you may want to think about the message you're portraying about yourself before soliciting it to strangers on the internet.

As far as I can see this debate is not about simply putting kitten (or khajiit) and telling "torture him and have fun, you sick pervert", it is mainly about interrogation/torture as possible quest component since there is civil war setting
For those who enjoy sight of suffering there is enough "Saw" movies (6 or 7- I believe this number proves that there is enough people who like something like that) and similar crap.
Here we are discussing adding interrogation/torture in order to create believable war scenario (just adding one more component)
Everyone can refuse to torture prisoner, but there is price to pay for clean hands
Prisoner- most probably command will send another interrigator, that can lead to few possible outcomes
Best- prisoner will suffer minor pain/fear and reveal all info
Ruthless- information will be squizeed, but instead of prisoner there will be leftover begging for death
Useless- interrigator is inexperienced and cannot influence prisoner enough and no information is gained (prisoner will be executed or exchanged for one of our prisoners)
Brutal- no information is gained and prisoner is killed in the process

In last two cases that means that there will be recon team (6-8 soldiers) send into enemy territory to investigate situation, and if team will return then at least one of the soldiers will most probably die (they aren't dragonborns you know)

So in this case If I must choose between 25% of totally postive outcome (+50% of getting information and 50% of prisoner surviving) or 90% (in case I get involved) I will choose those 90% (reserving 9 % to failure of getting info and 1% to killing or irreversibly demaging prisoner in process)

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:08 pm

Well now you're just arguing about science. Yes, there is gravity, and grass is green for a reason as well. There is a reason why you can't vote or drink, as well as another myriads of things actually; you can't form logical well-reasoned judgment.

I think that is only in the USA I believe in other places like Germeny or Russia where you can drink and gamble at a high school age, thus saying their brains are just as well to handle it as anyone else's, society dictates and brain washes us to think one way about people and it may not always be the right way since everyone Should think differently on subjects

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:19 pm

I'm fine with beating someone or doing anything that was seen in OB and the SI, but anything too graphic would simply be a letdown for me.

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:58 pm

I'm fine with beating someone or doing anything that was seen in OB and the SI, but anything too graphic would simply be a letdown for me.

I don't understand this logic, wouldn't this mean you are against using even your fists to fight? I mean that can be pretty graphic as well after all

» Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:07 pm

Actually I think it's time to put this to rest. This thread is all over the place and most of those places are kind of iffy.