I love the perks in Skyrim. You train in a certain area and develop skills as you go. It's simpler but much more effective than it ever was before IMO. :goodjob:

loved perks in fallout games so im glad they adopted them for skyrim. since perks are supposed to be the big deciding factors in how your character develops instead of skills that means its impossible to become master of all. the only thing im worried about is balance. the one were maces ignoring armor sounds a bit OP to me but hopefully its only something that happens once in a while.

not comparing it to NWN directly but this sounds very similar to how those D&D games did it where you picked a skill every couple of levels. im glad they are taking ideas from other games.

This guy. No, no not him, me. Ya, there we go.
I really can't wait cuz its a chance to really make your character unique, and have each playthough(even if its the same style) different

Wow that is some eye site you have there! I'd say your spot on. :goodjob:

Riposte: An offensive action with the intent of hitting one's opponent, made by the attacker who has just parried an attack.

So would be like a block and then say a quick sword attack while they are recoiling before they have a chance to do anything.

I am for perks and don't mind wacky perks. Mysterious Stranger in skyrim would be awesome.

I agree with you IF it is like that. However, I wonder if you need to invest a certain amount of perks into axes before can use this skill. I think the guy that went full axe fighter should be able to get the bleed effect. Whereas a "jack of all trades" character would not be able to, or would need to sacrifice elsewhere. I like well thought out trees that allow even maxed characters to play very differently. IOW, mastering the axe skill means you're deadly with an axe, but you if you didn't master the unique moves and techniques (aka "perks"), then you aren't a Grand Master. That's just my way of changing my perspective to enjoy the game. But that relies on Bethesda presenting good perk trees and playing semantics with the word 'perk' ;P

I can easily imagine most melee perks the ones I'm interested more are archery for sure, and magic. Those seem a lot more mysterious.

As long enemies don't explode when you hit them... Count me in

It really looks like 'Riposte', and I would think that the PC gets a free (probably automated) attack. I like this idea better than a blocking perk that (I'm guessing) mysteriously causes damage to the opponent.
I can understand bashing them with the shield, but to block an incoming swipe (from a club or hammer, say...), and have them take damage (through their weapon?), is hokey, unless its a magical effect of some kind.

The name is silly in this context ~but apt, I have to admit. This is depressing to me because its a rather telling harbinger IMO; one that describes exactly what this game is about.

I think that its odd that not everyone that can fight with an axe, can cause a wound that bleeds.

You are right about the perk semantics; I don't know why they didn't name them something else ~unless its just because turn about is fair play :chaos:. They made Fallout 3 shockingly familiar gameplay for TES players, and now the next TES game gets purposely made familiar to FO3 players.

Various weapon per~ "disciplines" ~techniques for a given weapon would be a good design... something a bit like the Witcher, or an expanded Oblivion, where various extra attack effects (and animations) get unlocked with acquiring the new weapon abilities.

**This game will be 'combat arcade' and use conversation as the cool-down. Lots will love it ~I probably wont be one of them.
Anyone here ever play http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eElk5-SbDA&feature=related?

Not me, the perks are not like Fallout and not really unique, they are just going to make your charcter very Uberpowerd

Again, semantics . Any bladed weapon can cause bleeding in the general sense, but I think is more of a rending talent maybe? For instance, flawless movement and control of the axe to expose and wound would make you a master, but dedicating to the art and learning how and where an axe can not only cut deep, but also open an artery or slice a tendon that might otherwise be protected by armor and/or bone. Take a gold medal Olympian in archery and have him shoot a grisly bear - unless he's been trained in hunting or bear anatomy, that bear is more than likely to get away. In short, the difference between say a "Marksman" talent tree and "Hunter" talent try for Bows. Not to mention the Marksman would probably not know how to track and sneak up on the bear lol.

Yeah, it is silly in context... so silly it doesn't make any sense at all...

Oh no there are no numbers, that truly is the end of RPGs?
Really, like RPGs are alien from skill trees... it's not like... you know RPGs invented them...

This [to me] tends to steer toward the 'merit badge' effect that I mentioned earlier. I don't disagree with what you've said, but it describes life choices picked up over an afternoon; Or lets say, a week; (instead of years).

What you are describing is rightly the domain of character classes. Where the PC has spent much of their life learning the trade ~in this case hunting as opposed to winning marksmanship events at the town fair. A game hunter would be well versed in the habits and vulnerabilities of their prey ~and no match for a seasoned pickpocket on the town streets when the game is purse snatching, and the prey are the wealthy socialites.

Why would they have to have numbers?

Its funny, but its usually adventure games that have skill trees, and RPGs that have skills. Skills like 'Fletching', 'Herbalism', Performance [art], Literacy (for a single language each time you take the skill)...

I've played computer RPG's where the character can read writing on the wall if they know the language; and I've played them where the character can walk into a tavern, and strike up a song, and (provided that they are any good at it), get tips from the patrons. I've played cRPGs where the PC can loose their shoes, and their chances of catching disease increases. TES is not the end all RPG; but its one of the best simulations of one.

What does that have to do with... anything?

How are they picked up over an afternoon though? Picking a class is gaining all that in one choice, in a fraction of a second. Like you get off a boat and someone asks what class you are :wink_smile: . You associate class with backstory and previous training, I think? That system works well, because you are defined more realistically. At, say 21 year old, you're probably going to have some experience under your belt in a select few areas. However, they want to try not defining you early, and I think that could work very well too. This makes sense in other games, because the backstory is usually predetermined. So you are a young soldier with basic training in all weapons and armor, so follows that you start out with an even skill set, albeit low. Therefor, I've started tailoring my char's backstory to reflect a similar situation. But if you want a more precise background, then I agree, you get kinda shafted in Skyrim - unless they allow you to boost some skills when you create your character (I hope, I hope).

I think how quickly you learn them is a hitch in any game, because even with classes you still advance a lot in one "day" - but its a game, so it needs to balance out the fact that your character's lifetime of epic adventures are going to be contained in 300 hours of gameplay.

I am. If implemented well.

Very happy they added perks to skyrim but I wish they would have been working together with attributes, not as a kinda substitute for them. Fallout 3 had both perks and attributes and it was perfect imo.

This is where I'm at with the perk system right now. I'm hoping they are used more to augment skills / attributes rather than replace them. They would make sense in the context of training to learn a new technique, but not when you suddenly become able to do something you weren't able to do just one 'skill point' prior (a la Oblivion). For example, I could buy into the idea that my character has trained enough to know where to strike an enemy so as to cause an artery to sever (and bleed uncontrollably), but I'd have a hard time believing that my character was previously unable to bash someone with their shield. This just seems like something that anyone with any amount of combat experience should be able to figure out within a day while using a shield.

I hope they arnt all linked to skills, I'm sorry I'm all for not mixing games but if you can't learn one of skills of ppl ie in the form of perks that will be a really missed opportunity... Also I like proficiency perks like in nv, from killing 100 undead I'm surly gunna be a bit better than when I start at killing them over say killing beasts, like wolves n bears, that I've only say killed 30 of in the same time frame.

Who? Who is gaining? (all at once).

Its only acquired "in a fraction of a second" if the player treats the character like a digital costume. Game starts, you pick a wizard class, and have access to magic spells and can cast lightning and fireballs.
Its unfortunate but true... not everyone plays with the assumption that this character has labored for years to master their basic talents, and be mentally able to learn new ones' that are dependent upon the foundation they have studied.

An instructor might be able to teach a blackbelt an experimental high kick in an afternoon (or a week), but that would not work for a whitebelt (a novice with little or no foundation study).


True, certainly. Fo me its not that they learn quick, so much as they widely disparate disciplines quick. People can learn a similar trade to the one that they know a lot faster than they can learn one that is completely alien to them. In some cases ~take the warrior/fighter class... A mage that has spent his years in a library sifting through books, is not going to learn how to fight with a "Kusari Gama" as fast as a veteran campaigner that has fought wars for his living and finds himself in a new land with new melee weapons; and that veteran won't be able to locate a book with the description and lore of a magical beast as well or as fast as the mage.



In TES the PC is a fighter/mage/thief ~regardless of class; and will be one in Skyrim (which has dropped all notion of class ). In fact its basically a world of fighter/mage/thieves; some vampiric, some lycanthropes. I have more trouble suspending disbelieve in TES than any other RPG I have ever played ~and I've played http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toon_%28role-playing_game%29